Keris hilts

jonng · 18th May 2007, 09:55 AM

Hi All,

My first time posting and hope I get it right.
Appreciate if you guys can help give an estimate of the ages of these hilts.

B/rgds,
Jonathan

Marcokeris · 18th May 2007, 01:51 PM

Oh, Jonathan very nice hits!!.

My prefer is the first on the right.

Alam Shah · 18th May 2007, 02:39 PM

Hi Jonathan, welcome to the forum. Whe're you from?

Nice hilts. Like Marco, I especially like the extreme right.
Deep, clean carvings. This is wood, yes? The rest looks like ivory.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to estimate from a single picture. Detail pictures from many angles would be nice, but still no guarantee. It's tedious and too much guesswork...

BluErf · 18th May 2007, 04:44 PM

Hi Jon,

We met a couple of times at Adni's shop and at the Malay Heritage Centre. I like your collection of hilts and kerises. Very keen eye for art.

Welcome to the forum.

Regards,
Kai Wee

BluErf · 18th May 2007, 05:08 PM

While the Sulawesi hilt on the extreme right catches the eye with its crisp carving, the rashaksa (or putro satu) hilt that is 2nd from the left is also worthy of attention. I think that hilt is stunning in a sublime manner. I think it is probably the oldest of the lot.

David · 18th May 2007, 05:23 PM

Yes Jon, i would also like to welcome you to the forum and thank you for posting these hilts. Very nice indeed.
If Kai Wee has met you and says you're OK then it must be so.

These hilts are very beautiful indeed! I would also agree with Kai Wee. They are all nice, but if i had to choose just one it would be the raksasa.

Shahrial, ive got a pretty hi-res monitor at work and i think that the Sulawesi hilt on the right is probably ivory as well. It doesn't look like wood on my screen.

Alam Shah · 18th May 2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

... Shahrial, ive got a pretty hi-res monitor at work and i think that the Sulawesi hilt on the right is probably ivory as well. It doesn't look like would on my screen.

Earlier, I was looking from office... on my LCD monitors. Now, looking from home, with my big CRT monitor, I agree with you David, it does look ivory especially the base and the texture.

Jonathan, I was a bit apprehensive at first, (because no country of origin). Now that I know whom I think you are, so you're finally here

. My old army buddy

.

jonng · 18th May 2007, 07:43 PM

Thank you all for your warm welcome and reply.
I've been looking at my keris hilts for quite some time now and would like to establish a close approximate of their age and the meaning/ significance of the forms and motifs carved on them. I'll begin with the Sulawesi hilt. I know it's marine ivory but not sure if its from a dugong or a whale's tooth. How do you tell them apart? Appreciate your input.

Rick · 18th May 2007, 08:03 PM

Hi Jonathan, welcome.
Could you provide a shot of the base of the handle where the pesi enters?
I think that would be the only place that one could see any grain features.

jonng · 18th May 2007, 09:30 PM

Hi Rick,

Hope the pic helps. The grains/ lines are finer than those from a finger print.

DaveS · 18th May 2007, 10:06 PM

Suluwesi?????????????. Looks Madura to me!!!!!!!Dave.

Raden Usman Djogja · 18th May 2007, 10:35 PM

very detail. madurese?

Rick · 19th May 2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonng

Hi Rick,

Hope the pic helps. The grains/ lines are finer than those from a finger print.

Interesting stuff; it doesn't quite look like Elephant ivory to me.

BluErf · 19th May 2007, 02:29 AM

This is a Sulawesi hilt. Marine ivory. An unusually upright variant of this form:

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

Motif is very very similar to the piece referenced above too. I can only propose that the uprightness is due to limitation in raw material, or to acommodate a very long peksi. Some Sulawesi keris look like they have imported Javanese blades (high quality ones) to me, so could be that the hilt was made to accommodate the long Javanese Peksi. There could be other reasons.

Marcokeris · 19th May 2007, 01:02 PM

Maybe i don't see well but it seems from elephant (for angle's grain)

David · 19th May 2007, 05:54 PM

I'm with Kai Wee on this...looks like marine ivory from Sulawesi (not necessarily the ivory, but the form

). The color and the ring patterns look correct for the marine stuff. As for whether it is dugong or whale, i am not sure if there is any way to be sure once it has been carved.

18th May 2007, 09:55 AM	#1
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Keris hilts Hi All, My first time posting and hope I get it right. Appreciate if you guys can help give an estimate of the ages of these hilts. B/rgds, Jonathan Attached Images

18th May 2007, 05:23 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Yes Jon, i would also like to welcome you to the forum and thank you for posting these hilts. Very nice indeed. If Kai Wee has met you and says you're OK then it must be so. These hilts are very beautiful indeed! I would also agree with Kai Wee. They are all nice, but if i had to choose just one it would be the raksasa. Shahrial, ive got a pretty hi-res monitor at work and i think that the Sulawesi hilt on the right is probably ivory as well. It doesn't look like wood on my screen. Last edited by David; 18th May 2007 at 06:31 PM. Reason: spelling :o

18th May 2007, 07:43 PM	#8
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Thank you all for your warm welcome and reply. I've been looking at my keris hilts for quite some time now and would like to establish a close approximate of their age and the meaning/ significance of the forms and motifs carved on them. I'll begin with the Sulawesi hilt. I know it's marine ivory but not sure if its from a dugong or a whale's tooth. How do you tell them apart? Appreciate your input. Attached Images

18th May 2007, 09:30 PM	#10
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Hi Rick, Hope the pic helps. The grains/ lines are finer than those from a finger print. Attached Images

18th May 2007, 01:51 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Oh, Jonathan very nice hits!!. My prefer is the first on the right.

18th May 2007, 02:39 PM	#3
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi Jonathan, welcome to the forum. Whe're you from? Nice hilts. Like Marco, I especially like the extreme right. Deep, clean carvings. This is wood, yes? The rest looks like ivory. Unfortunately, it's difficult to estimate from a single picture. Detail pictures from many angles would be nice, but still no guarantee. It's tedious and too much guesswork...

18th May 2007, 04:44 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Jon, We met a couple of times at Adni's shop and at the Malay Heritage Centre. I like your collection of hilts and kerises. Very keen eye for art. Welcome to the forum. Regards, Kai Wee

18th May 2007, 05:08 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	While the Sulawesi hilt on the extreme right catches the eye with its crisp carving, the rashaksa (or putro satu) hilt that is 2nd from the left is also worthy of attention. I think that hilt is stunning in a sublime manner. I think it is probably the oldest of the lot.

18th May 2007, 08:03 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Jonathan, welcome. Could you provide a shot of the base of the handle where the pesi enters? I think that would be the only place that one could see any grain features.

18th May 2007, 10:06 PM	#11
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Suluwesi?????????????. Looks Madura to me!!!!!!!Dave.

18th May 2007, 10:35 PM	#12
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	very detail. madurese?

19th May 2007, 02:29 AM	#14
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	This is a Sulawesi hilt. Marine ivory. An unusually upright variant of this form: http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php Motif is very very similar to the piece referenced above too. I can only propose that the uprightness is due to limitation in raw material, or to acommodate a very long peksi. Some Sulawesi keris look like they have imported Javanese blades (high quality ones) to me, so could be that the hilt was made to accommodate the long Javanese Peksi. There could be other reasons.

19th May 2007, 01:02 PM	#15
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Maybe i don't see well but it seems from elephant (for angle's grain)

19th May 2007, 05:54 PM	#16
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	I'm with Kai Wee on this...looks like marine ivory from Sulawesi (not necessarily the ivory, but the form ). The color and the ring patterns look correct for the marine stuff. As for whether it is dugong or whale, i am not sure if there is any way to be sure once it has been carved.