Ron Gendhuru

Marcokeris · 2nd May 2009, 01:57 PM

Unusual

David · 2nd May 2009, 03:38 PM

I don't know if it is unusual, but it is a beautiful example of modern keris art. Is the border actually a second pamor (wengkon) or is this part of the main pamor?

Marcokeris · 2nd May 2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I don't know if it is unusual, but it is a beautiful example of modern keris art. Is the border actually a second pamor (wengkon) or is this part of the main pamor?

Thanks for appreciation.
About pamor...really i don't know

About the age the seller, a very nice (and very famous) Yogya man that i know from 25 years told me this keris was made before the last II° war.

David · 2nd May 2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

About the age the seller, a very nice (and very famous) Yogya man that i know from 25 years told me this keris was made before the last II° war.

Well, if he's famous...

Rick · 2nd May 2009, 07:48 PM

Nice example Marco.
In your close-up of the sorsoran the kembang kacang looks very elephant-like!
I think I even see an elephant's eye .

Marcokeris · 2nd May 2009, 08:09 PM

....I think I even see an elephant's eye .

[/QUOTE]
the same for me

A. G. Maisey · 2nd May 2009, 09:46 PM

Quite unusual methodolgy used to produce this pamor; not so unique in this day and age, but very certainly exceptional--- very exceptional--- for the PBX era and prior. Whoever made this was clearly an immensely talented pattern welder, and well before his time.

Yes David, it is a wengkon, created by a layer of contrasting mlumah material between the miring layer and the slorok.

Sajen · 3rd May 2009, 03:06 PM

Very nice worked keris and beautiful sarung.
sajen

ferrylaki · 4th May 2009, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Unusual

the pamor work is outstanding. most ron genduru pamor will not appear this way. this pamor remainds me to 'kupu tarung' pamor.
I also love the wengkon.

Marcokeris · 6th May 2009, 09:27 AM

Thanks all for appreciations.
Ferrylaki you are right. Pamor seems a little to Kupu Tarung . (About kupu tarung : in my experience is very difficult to find it....from some years i'm looking one opamor like this....but nothing good!

......i remember Ganjawulung has a very nice one

)

ferrylaki · 6th May 2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Thanks all for appreciations.
Ferrylaki you are right. Pamor seems a little to Kupu Tarung . (About kupu tarung : in my experience is very difficult to find it....from some years i'm looking one opamor like this....but nothing good!

......i remember Ganjawulung has a very nice one

)

it seem we have the same taste on this kupu tarung pamor. I've been wondering if I 'm lucky enough to find a keris with kupu tarung pamor.
It's a hard to find

Marcokeris · 3rd September 2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

it seem we have the same taste on this kupu tarung pamor. I've been wondering if I 'm lucky enough to find a keris with kupu tarung pamor.
It's a hard to find

I have found one: nothing extra...but a good feeling to my soul.

Jean · 4th September 2009, 02:15 PM

Hello Marco,
In my opinion, the pamor of this blade is not Kupu Tarung (see Pamoratlas for instance). I have my own idea (see pictures 11A and 16B in my book) but I leave to you guys to determine which pamor it is...
Cheers
Jean

David · 4th September 2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Marco,
In my opinion, the pamor of this blade is not Kupu Tarung (see Pamoratlas for instance). I have my own idea (see pictures 11A and 16B in my book) but I leave to you guys to determine which pamor it is...
Cheers
Jean

Hi Jean. If it is possible perhaps you could upload those photos for those not fortunate enought to own your book.

Marcokeris · 5th September 2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Marco,
In my opinion, the pamor of this blade is not Kupu Tarung (see Pamoratlas for instance). I have my own idea (see pictures 11A and 16B in my book) but I leave to you guys to determine which pamor it is...
Cheers
Jean

Yes Jean
Also in Jawa Keris book there is a nice pic (i think the best detailed) of this pamor.
I remember in the Forum there is a (little

)pic of a blade with this pamor (Ganjawulung) but..i don't remeber where it is.
I think you are right but when the seller told me kupu tarung i really saw inside some butterflies flying one near the other

Jean · 5th September 2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Hi Jean. If it is possible perhaps you could upload those photos for those not fortunate enought to own your book.

Hi David,
It is a shame but I don't know how to attach pictures

although I tried from the Insert Image icon and accessed to my Images file, could you help me about it? I have recently bought a blade with I think a real Kupu Tarung pamor.
Cheers
Jean

kai · 6th September 2009, 11:42 PM

Hello Jean,

Welcome to the forum!

Did you hit the upload button in the lower right corner after browsing to the respective file(s) to be attached? Actually, it is preferable to upload each pic separately (rather than doing several at once) since this preserves their order. BTW, there is a maximum width (1000 pixels?) and height (1280 pixels) as well as maximum size (200 Kb) constraint for pics.

I've sporadically lost uploaded pics by further working on posts like doing previews, etc. Thus, I prefer to finish the text first, preview it, and, as a last step, upload pics (wait till each upload is complete and then close the pop-up window), verify wether they are shown on the main reply window, and finally hit the submit button...

In case this doesn't help, shoot me an email or PM and I'll try to walk you through the pics posting procedure.

Regards,
Kai

David · 7th September 2009, 01:25 AM

Thanks for stepping up Kai. I am currently vactioning in Nova Scotia so i am a little bit slow in response time. Jean, if you have further questions about uploading photos please feel free to ask.

Jean · 29th September 2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I have found one: nothing extra...but a good feeling to my soul.

Hello Marco,
This is a keris with a similar pamor in my collection, I have classified it as Ganggeng Kanyut?
Best regards
Jean

Jean · 29th September 2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Thanks all for appreciations.
Ferrylaki you are right. Pamor seems a little to Kupu Tarung . (About kupu tarung : in my experience is very difficult to find it....from some years i'm looking one opamor like this....but nothing good!

......i remember Ganjawulung has a very nice one

)

Hello gentlemen,
Is this pamor Kupu Tarung?

The blade is part of a keris from Borneo, it needs warangan treatment.
Best regards
Jean

ganjawulung · 4th April 2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Thanks all for appreciations.
Ferrylaki you are right. Pamor seems a little to Kupu Tarung . (About kupu tarung : in my experience is very difficult to find it....from some years i'm looking one opamor like this....but nothing good!

......i remember Ganjawulung has a very nice one

)

Dear Marco, is it the "kupu tarung" you meant -- almost a year ago?

Marcokeris · 4th April 2010, 05:32 PM

Dear Ganjawulung
YES

!!! This is the keris i remember
A very beautiful pamor ...and a very nice kris and complete sarong

ganjawulung · 4th April 2010, 06:20 PM

Is it? But two years ago, I saw a kupu tarung -- much beautiful than this in Yogyakarta. According to the owner, it was a "kaping piton" (HB VII) kupu tarung, straight blade, with a very neat kupu tarung pamor. I suggested you to took (buy) it, in front of the owner, but you chose to take the "walang sinundukan"... Why?

About one month later, that beautiful kupu tarung was bought by someone from Jakarta -- twice the price the former owner offered to you. Do you remember that beautiful kupu tarung in Yogyakartan branggah warangka?

Any way, your "ron genduru" is attractive too. You may regard the "lar gangsir" leaves inside the ron gendhuru....

GANJAWULUNG

Marcokeris · 4th April 2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

..... I suggested you to took (buy) it, in front of the owner, but you chose to take the "walang sinundukan"... Why?

GANJAWULUNG

Very easy:because i liked more the other blade.

Naga Sasra · 4th April 2010, 11:00 PM

Dear estemed members,

The thread name on this is Ron Gendhuru, we have however not seen a Ron Genduru pamor in the thread.
In lieu of that I have attached some photos of one of my Solo pieces, reflecting what is normally understood to be the Ron Genduru pamor. This just so members that are not familiar with the pamor can see what it looks like.
Thank You,

David · 4th April 2010, 11:26 PM

Thanks Erik for posting this.
Obviously the original blade has multiple pamor patterns. One seems to be wengkon. What pamor do you think the other one is that resembles Ron Gendhuru?

ganjawulung · 5th April 2010, 02:42 AM

Just for complementary to Erik's post, here are illustration on some type of pamors for comparison. It is from Mr Haryono Guritno's book "Keris Jawa"...
(1) Ron Gendhuru -- or Ron Kendhuru, (2) Ron Jagung, Mayang Mekar, Ron Gendhuru Sinebit, (3) Sekar Glagah, Ron Gendhuru Sinebit, Bulu Ayam, (4) Pari Sawuli, Sekar Glagah, Kupu Tarung, Lar Gangsir...

GANJAWULUNG

Naga Sasra · 5th April 2010, 03:23 AM

Good question David,
At first glance and from a distance the blade look like a Ron Genduru, but the close ups show a lot of things going on inside the blade.

In my post I indicated my photos reflected what is normally thought of as the Ron Genduru pamor, which is supposed to be based on the Genduru leaves also called caryoto mitis and clumping fish tail palm.

The one that resembles Ron Genduru do not follow the lines of the leaf.

I see wengkon, and as ganjawulung noted lar gangsir, I also see a bit of Ron genduru and a bit of mayang mekar, with other words there are an awful lot going on in the blade, but frankly, I happens to like it.

I prefer not to elaborate any further on this, as when it come to attaching names to pamor and dapur as well, they can all be interpreted in many different ways and some empu had different ideas as to what a named pamor should look like, and the control of the pamor by the empu did certainly impact the finished product.

David · 5th April 2010, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

I see wengkon, and as ganjawulung noted lar gangsir, I also see a bit of Ron genduru and a bit of mayang mekar, with other words there are an awful lot going on in the blade, but frankly, I happens to like it.

I happen to like it quite a bit too. I guess what i am trying to figure out is whether or not this work has followed any particular pakem or if it is the work of a creative pandai. It looks to me to be very skilled, but fairly recent work. Any way you cut it though i find it a very appealing keris.

Jean · 7th April 2010, 02:18 PM

Hi gentlemen,
A keris with pamor Ron Genduru wengkon from my collection.
Best regards
Jean

2nd May 2009, 01:57 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Ron Gendhuru Unusual Attached Images

4th September 2009, 02:15 PM	#13
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Ron Gendhuru Hello Marco, In my opinion, the pamor of this blade is not Kupu Tarung (see Pamoratlas for instance). I have my own idea (see pictures 11A and 16B in my book) but I leave to you guys to determine which pamor it is... Cheers Jean

4th April 2010, 06:20 PM	#23
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Is it? But two years ago, I saw a kupu tarung -- much beautiful than this in Yogyakarta. According to the owner, it was a "kaping piton" (HB VII) kupu tarung, straight blade, with a very neat kupu tarung pamor. I suggested you to took (buy) it, in front of the owner, but you chose to take the "walang sinundukan"... Why? About one month later, that beautiful kupu tarung was bought by someone from Jakarta -- twice the price the former owner offered to you. Do you remember that beautiful kupu tarung in Yogyakartan branggah warangka? Any way, your "ron genduru" is attractive too. You may regard the "lar gangsir" leaves inside the ron gendhuru.... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

4th April 2010, 11:00 PM	#25
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Dear estemed members, The thread name on this is Ron Gendhuru, we have however not seen a Ron Genduru pamor in the thread. In lieu of that I have attached some photos of one of my Solo pieces, reflecting what is normally understood to be the Ron Genduru pamor. This just so members that are not familiar with the pamor can see what it looks like. Thank You, Attached Images

5th April 2010, 02:42 AM	#27
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	PAMOR COMPARISON Just for complementary to Erik's post, here are illustration on some type of pamors for comparison. It is from Mr Haryono Guritno's book "Keris Jawa"... (1) Ron Gendhuru -- or Ron Kendhuru, (2) Ron Jagung, Mayang Mekar, Ron Gendhuru Sinebit, (3) Sekar Glagah, Ron Gendhuru Sinebit, Bulu Ayam, (4) Pari Sawuli, Sekar Glagah, Kupu Tarung, Lar Gangsir... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

2nd May 2009, 03:38 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	I don't know if it is unusual, but it is a beautiful example of modern keris art. Is the border actually a second pamor (wengkon) or is this part of the main pamor?

2nd May 2009, 07:48 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Nice example Marco. In your close-up of the sorsoran the kembang kacang looks very elephant-like! I think I even see an elephant's eye .

2nd May 2009, 08:09 PM	#6
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	....I think I even see an elephant's eye . [/QUOTE] the same for me

2nd May 2009, 09:46 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Quite unusual methodolgy used to produce this pamor; not so unique in this day and age, but very certainly exceptional--- very exceptional--- for the PBX era and prior. Whoever made this was clearly an immensely talented pattern welder, and well before his time. Yes David, it is a wengkon, created by a layer of contrasting mlumah material between the miring layer and the slorok.

3rd May 2009, 03:06 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Very nice worked keris and beautiful sarung. sajen

6th May 2009, 09:27 AM	#10
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Thanks all for appreciations. Ferrylaki you are right. Pamor seems a little to Kupu Tarung . (About kupu tarung : in my experience is very difficult to find it....from some years i'm looking one opamor like this....but nothing good! ......i remember Ganjawulung has a very nice one )

6th September 2009, 11:42 PM	#17
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Jean, Welcome to the forum! Did you hit the upload button in the lower right corner after browsing to the respective file(s) to be attached? Actually, it is preferable to upload each pic separately (rather than doing several at once) since this preserves their order. BTW, there is a maximum width (1000 pixels?) and height (1280 pixels) as well as maximum size (200 Kb) constraint for pics. I've sporadically lost uploaded pics by further working on posts like doing previews, etc. Thus, I prefer to finish the text first, preview it, and, as a last step, upload pics (wait till each upload is complete and then close the pop-up window), verify wether they are shown on the main reply window, and finally hit the submit button... In case this doesn't help, shoot me an email or PM and I'll try to walk you through the pics posting procedure. Regards, Kai

7th September 2009, 01:25 AM	#18
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Thanks for stepping up Kai. I am currently vactioning in Nova Scotia so i am a little bit slow in response time. Jean, if you have further questions about uploading photos please feel free to ask.

4th April 2010, 05:32 PM	#22
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Dear Ganjawulung YES !!! This is the keris i remember A very beautiful pamor ...and a very nice kris and complete sarong

4th April 2010, 11:26 PM	#26
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Thanks Erik for posting this. Obviously the original blade has multiple pamor patterns. One seems to be wengkon. What pamor do you think the other one is that resembles Ron Gendhuru?

5th April 2010, 03:23 AM	#28
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Good question David, At first glance and from a distance the blade look like a Ron Genduru, but the close ups show a lot of things going on inside the blade. In my post I indicated my photos reflected what is normally thought of as the Ron Genduru pamor, which is supposed to be based on the Genduru leaves also called caryoto mitis and clumping fish tail palm. The one that resembles Ron Genduru do not follow the lines of the leaf. I see wengkon, and as ganjawulung noted lar gangsir, I also see a bit of Ron genduru and a bit of mayang mekar, with other words there are an awful lot going on in the blade, but frankly, I happens to like it. I prefer not to elaborate any further on this, as when it come to attaching names to pamor and dapur as well, they can all be interpreted in many different ways and some empu had different ideas as to what a named pamor should look like, and the control of the pamor by the empu did certainly impact the finished product.

7th April 2010, 02:18 PM	#30
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hi gentlemen, A keris with pamor Ron Genduru wengkon from my collection. Best regards Jean Attached Images