Sundang Bisaya

kino · 25th October 2011, 01:28 AM

Heeding Vandoo's call to arms.
I picked this one up a month ago. Sadly the hilt has a huge crack on one side but not so bad on the other. Hilt carved from horn, I'm suspecting that the octagonal ferrule is brass.
It's on the small side at 20 inches overall with a 15-1/2 inch blade. The blade is pretty hefty at the forte at 3/8 inch thick. The blade is sharpened on both sides. It's a nice little chopper.

VANDOO · 25th October 2011, 02:09 AM

A VERY INTERESTING ITEM, I LIKE IT A LOT.

WHEN I FIRST LOOKED AT IT I ONLY SAW THE TOP FRONT FACE OF THE HANDLE. THE TOP PART LOOKED LIKE AN EAGLE HEAD WITH A SKULL UNDER IT. LOOKING AT THE OTHER PICTURES THIS IS NOT APPARENT AND IT IS A MORE TYPICAL MONSTER FACE.
FOR SOME REASON THIS SWORD REMINDS ME OF THOSE THAT OFTEN HAVE THE BAT EARED HEAD FOR A POMMEL. PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN COMMENT ON THIS SIMULARITY AND IF IT MAY COME FROM THE SAME REGION. OR NOT?

Rick · 25th October 2011, 02:36 AM

Currently suffering from a sinus infection, I am getting a kick out of the hilt .

3/8ths is a very hefty blade .
Interesting to have a blade profile like that and also be sharpened on both edges .
Or do you mean that it is not a chisel grind ?

Battara · 25th October 2011, 03:17 AM

Yes what an interesting piece. It may be cracked but nothing is missing!

I agree about it being Bisayan.

Congratulations! and thanks for posting.

VANDOO · 25th October 2011, 03:24 AM

THE BLADE SHAPE AND SWORD SIZE IS WHAT REMINDED ME OF THE BAT EARED DESIGNS I HAVE SEEN. THE ONES I HAVE SEEN DID NOT HAVE DOUBLE EDGED BLADES THOUGH. THATS A FIRST FOR ME ON THIS FORM.
I HAVE SEEN A FEW HILTS WHERE CARVING SIMULAR TO YOUR EXAMPLE REPRESENTED A LION SO PERHAPS ITS A LION. I WOULD THINK A DOUBLE EDGE WOULD BE USEFUL IN A WEAPON BUT NOT SO MUCH AS A TOOL.

DON'T LET AN ITEM BEING CRACKED THROW YOU OFF. MANY OF MY FRIENDS INSIST I AM CRACKED FOR COLLECTING SUCH THINGS AT ALL

ibeam · 25th October 2011, 03:55 AM

What characteristics makes this sword from Visayas?

Spunjer · 25th October 2011, 07:12 AM

dunno bro... looks bicol to me

migueldiaz · 25th October 2011, 03:34 PM

kino, salamat! spunjer, looks bicol to me, too. and moons ago, 'leaf' posted these pics here at the forum (i marked with 'x' the one that's very similar) ...

kino · 25th October 2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

dunno bro... looks bicol to me

Yeah, I knew that

Thanks, bro. I'm not too keen on the Luzon and Visayas stuff.

VANDOO was right when he said it looked similar to a Minasbad.

Rick, yes it's not a chisel ground blade.

Battara any ideas on how to arrest the progression of the crack?

ibeam · 25th October 2011, 09:10 PM

Here is another similar Bikol manasbad example

Spunger, this probably looks familiar to you

Kino, I would leave it alone. You can infill it with epoxy but its hard to match aged horn like that with grain. Thnx for sharing.

Battara · 26th October 2011, 12:05 AM

I'm with Ibeam on treating this - not much you can really do unless you matched the color of the epoxy to the horn.

BTW - thanks for the pics Migueldiaz - helps me see the difference between Visayan and Bicol. I see your point (get it?

).

kino · 26th October 2011, 06:16 AM

MiguelDiaz- I see the similarities in the carvings. Thanks for posting the photos.

Jon- nice one.

I will have to leave things be and just apply some oil to the horn hilt and hopefully that will stop the crack from going any further.

migueldiaz · 26th October 2011, 12:23 PM

Jose, Albert, I was looking for the 'Like' button ... until I realized that this is not FB!

Thanks, too.

Dimasalang · 26th October 2011, 08:10 PM

Wow thats awesome!

Bicol is an interesting region. It is considered a part of the Luzon region(aka Region V), considering the main part of Bicol is still land locked to Luzon...but the Bicol island province of Masbate is considered a part of the Visayan region. The main part of Bicol is not. They are in a way half and half. The main dialect spoken is Bicol, but in the North they can speak Tagalog(Camarines Norte and Camarines Sur), and in the south they can speak Cebuano/Visayan...as well as a mix dialect of Visayan and Bikol which they call "Bisakol". The Bikolanos are considered their own ethnic group, but even from the different and mixed dialects, you can see the impact the Tagalogs and Visayans have to Bicol. And more likely their culture as well. I've noticed the blades there seem to look more closely related to the Visayan region, but I haven't seen any Bicol blades that have a chiseled edge.
Just my observation.

nacho · 27th October 2011, 02:59 AM

The similarity in Bicol and Panay swords have been subject of our discussions here in the Philippines. No conclusions reached. But some interesting info:

1) Bicol and Panay dialects have strong similarities;
2) Legend says that 10 Bornean datus landed in Panay and bought the island from the natives for a golden salakot (hat). Most of the datus settled in Panay, but a few moved on to Bicol and settled there.

DaveS · 27th October 2011, 03:27 AM

Albert: If you can get a piece of horn the same color as the handle, try
grinding it to get enough dust to mix with epoxy to fill the crack.
Sometimes the color match can work out really well......Dave

kino · 27th October 2011, 06:30 AM

Dimasalang-thanks for the geography lesson.

Dave- It's good to hear from you. Trouble is finding horn that matches. Thanks for the tip. Say hello to your better half for me.

25th October 2011, 01:28 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Sundang Bisaya Heeding Vandoo's call to arms. I picked this one up a month ago. Sadly the hilt has a huge crack on one side but not so bad on the other. Hilt carved from horn, I'm suspecting that the octagonal ferrule is brass. It's on the small side at 20 inches overall with a 15-1/2 inch blade. The blade is pretty hefty at the forte at 3/8 inch thick. The blade is sharpened on both sides. It's a nice little chopper. Attached Images

25th October 2011, 03:34 PM	#8
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	kino, salamat! spunjer, looks bicol to me, too. and moons ago, 'leaf' posted these pics here at the forum (i marked with 'x' the one that's very similar) ... Attached Images

25th October 2011, 09:10 PM	#10
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	Here is another similar Bikol manasbad example Spunger, this probably looks familiar to you Kino, I would leave it alone. You can infill it with epoxy but its hard to match aged horn like that with grain. Thnx for sharing. Attached Images

25th October 2011, 02:09 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A VERY INTERESTING ITEM, I LIKE IT A LOT. WHEN I FIRST LOOKED AT IT I ONLY SAW THE TOP FRONT FACE OF THE HANDLE. THE TOP PART LOOKED LIKE AN EAGLE HEAD WITH A SKULL UNDER IT. LOOKING AT THE OTHER PICTURES THIS IS NOT APPARENT AND IT IS A MORE TYPICAL MONSTER FACE. FOR SOME REASON THIS SWORD REMINDS ME OF THOSE THAT OFTEN HAVE THE BAT EARED HEAD FOR A POMMEL. PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN COMMENT ON THIS SIMULARITY AND IF IT MAY COME FROM THE SAME REGION. OR NOT?

25th October 2011, 02:36 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Currently suffering from a sinus infection, I am getting a kick out of the hilt . 3/8ths is a very hefty blade . Interesting to have a blade profile like that and also be sharpened on both edges . Or do you mean that it is not a chisel grind ?

25th October 2011, 03:17 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Yes what an interesting piece. It may be cracked but nothing is missing! I agree about it being Bisayan. Congratulations! and thanks for posting.

25th October 2011, 03:24 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE BLADE SHAPE AND SWORD SIZE IS WHAT REMINDED ME OF THE BAT EARED DESIGNS I HAVE SEEN. THE ONES I HAVE SEEN DID NOT HAVE DOUBLE EDGED BLADES THOUGH. THATS A FIRST FOR ME ON THIS FORM. I HAVE SEEN A FEW HILTS WHERE CARVING SIMULAR TO YOUR EXAMPLE REPRESENTED A LION SO PERHAPS ITS A LION. I WOULD THINK A DOUBLE EDGE WOULD BE USEFUL IN A WEAPON BUT NOT SO MUCH AS A TOOL. DON'T LET AN ITEM BEING CRACKED THROW YOU OFF. MANY OF MY FRIENDS INSIST I AM CRACKED FOR COLLECTING SUCH THINGS AT ALL

25th October 2011, 03:55 AM	#6
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	What characteristics makes this sword from Visayas?

25th October 2011, 07:12 AM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	dunno bro... looks bicol to me

26th October 2011, 12:05 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	I'm with Ibeam on treating this - not much you can really do unless you matched the color of the epoxy to the horn. BTW - thanks for the pics Migueldiaz - helps me see the difference between Visayan and Bicol. I see your point (get it? ).

26th October 2011, 06:16 AM	#12
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	MiguelDiaz- I see the similarities in the carvings. Thanks for posting the photos. Jon- nice one. I will have to leave things be and just apply some oil to the horn hilt and hopefully that will stop the crack from going any further.

26th October 2011, 12:23 PM	#13
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Jose, Albert, I was looking for the 'Like' button ... until I realized that this is not FB! Thanks, too.

26th October 2011, 08:10 PM	#14
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Wow thats awesome! Bicol is an interesting region. It is considered a part of the Luzon region(aka Region V), considering the main part of Bicol is still land locked to Luzon...but the Bicol island province of Masbate is considered a part of the Visayan region. The main part of Bicol is not. They are in a way half and half. The main dialect spoken is Bicol, but in the North they can speak Tagalog(Camarines Norte and Camarines Sur), and in the south they can speak Cebuano/Visayan...as well as a mix dialect of Visayan and Bikol which they call "Bisakol". The Bikolanos are considered their own ethnic group, but even from the different and mixed dialects, you can see the impact the Tagalogs and Visayans have to Bicol. And more likely their culture as well. I've noticed the blades there seem to look more closely related to the Visayan region, but I haven't seen any Bicol blades that have a chiseled edge. Just my observation.

27th October 2011, 02:59 AM	#15
nacho Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Makati Posts: 69	The similarity in Bicol and Panay swords have been subject of our discussions here in the Philippines. No conclusions reached. But some interesting info: 1) Bicol and Panay dialects have strong similarities; 2) Legend says that 10 Bornean datus landed in Panay and bought the island from the natives for a golden salakot (hat). Most of the datus settled in Panay, but a few moved on to Bicol and settled there.

27th October 2011, 03:27 AM	#16
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Albert: If you can get a piece of horn the same color as the handle, try grinding it to get enough dust to mix with epoxy to fill the crack. Sometimes the color match can work out really well......Dave

27th October 2011, 06:30 AM	#17
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Dimasalang-thanks for the geography lesson. Dave- It's good to hear from you. Trouble is finding horn that matches. Thanks for the tip. Say hello to your better half for me.