Chinese dha (daidao) for comment

josh stout · 5th July 2007, 05:33 PM

I don’t usually post things that I don't have in my hands yet, but I just bought this and I am interested in peoples' opinions. I know very little about this type of sword.
Josh

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...3E58880a00.jpg

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...3E58880a01.jpg

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...3E58880a02.jpg

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...3E58880a04.jpg

Mark · 5th July 2007, 06:41 PM

This is one that I think can be attributed to the Kachin, northern Burma. This short, three-part handle and the straight blade are generally typical of a Kachin sword-dha. The scabbard decoration is a Shan style, but there is a very intimate cultural connection between the Kachin and the Shan (at least in Burma), so that is not surprising.

josh stout · 5th July 2007, 07:26 PM

That is interesting. It was found on the Chinese side of the border.
Josh

Tim Simmons · 5th July 2007, 07:48 PM

That might be because access to sensitive parts of Burma is restricted as is parts of Nagaland and the Burmese border. So it may have travelled some very local trade routes.

Mark · 5th July 2007, 09:01 PM

There are Kachin and Shan on both sides of the border, actually, and historically strong trade links (don't know about today), so finding such a sword in China (I assume Yunnan Province) is not surprising.

Tim Simmons · 5th July 2007, 09:17 PM

China must be more relaxed and offers a bigger market.

kai · 5th July 2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

It was found on the Chinese side of the border.

Well, some of the ethnic groups in SW Yunnan have close ties with those on the Burmese and Thai sides of the mountain range. AFAIK, there are quite a few dha known to have come out of Yunnan. Trade along this southern land route has been going on for milennia (not to mention the last decades of intensive commerce between Burma and China).

Regards,
Kai

RSWORD · 5th July 2007, 11:06 PM

I like the blade profile on this one. I hope it turns out to be nicely laminated. Also seems more typical of a Chinese blade profile than a dha profile. Please post some more blade pics when you get in hand.

Ian · 6th July 2007, 05:33 AM

Hi Josh:

The link between the swords of northern Burma and neighboring southern China (Yunan Province) are well established. Cultural groups that span the international borders have been in place for many centuries. It should be remembered too that the overland route from eastern India to China went through Burma (the Burma Road through northern Burma).

One can certainly find Burmese dha with Chinese inscriptions (I have a couple), as well as typical Burmese dha with strong Chinese design elements in the scabbard and hilt. Here is an example of a Burmese dha with Chinese-influenced decorations:

This sword was exhibited last year in Macau in the History of Steel Exhibition, and was featured on the front of the catalog that resulted from that effort.

Ian.

josh stout · 6th July 2007, 04:38 PM

That is an intriguing mishmash of styles. The carnelians on the scabbard remind me very strongly of Tibetan work. I am fascinated with influences at the border regions of China. Mostly I have looked at Chinese/Tibetan stylistic attributes, but this last dha seems to go around the corner as it were from Sichuan to Yunnan and down to Burma.

The daidao I posted does seem to have a stronger Chinese influence in its blade than others I have seen from Yunnan province. I am looking forward to seeing how it is constructed. It is almost certainly laminated, but I think with a less pronounced pattern than one would find in Tibetan or Yi blades. The pattern may be difficult to see without some work. How would the blade be attached to the handle? Is the tang peened over at the end?

While I am thinking about border influences, does anyone know anything about the Yi from Yunnan? Would they use a dha/daidao or stay with the zhebeidao as found in Sichuan? I have a decent idea now what to expect from the Northern Yi, but I have never seen anything from their southern cousins. There is supposedly a strong Burmese influence.
Josh

Ian · 6th July 2007, 08:18 PM

Josh:

You raise some interesting quesions about Sino-border styles, and the likeness to Tibetan decorative style is apparent in the example I posted.

The sword dha favored by the Kachin was found throughout the range they previously occupied in the 18th and 19th C, which extended as far west as Assam. Such westward migration would have brought them into fairly close proximity to Tibet, so a direct connection may be possible. That particular sword has some age to it, and is probably a 19th C. example.

Ian.

Mark · 8th July 2007, 03:30 PM

The blade most likely has a very short tang (2 to 3 inches), pressure fit in the handle and affixed with resin. Full tangs, peened or otherwise, are very rare in dha & daab.

5th July 2007, 05:33 PM	#1
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Chinese dha (daidao) for comment I don’t usually post things that I don't have in my hands yet, but I just bought this and I am interested in peoples' opinions. I know very little about this type of sword. Josh http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...3E58880a00.jpg http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...3E58880a01.jpg http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...3E58880a02.jpg http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...3E58880a04.jpg

6th July 2007, 05:33 AM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	China-Burma links Hi Josh: The link between the swords of northern Burma and neighboring southern China (Yunan Province) are well established. Cultural groups that span the international borders have been in place for many centuries. It should be remembered too that the overland route from eastern India to China went through Burma (the Burma Road through northern Burma). One can certainly find Burmese dha with Chinese inscriptions (I have a couple), as well as typical Burmese dha with strong Chinese design elements in the scabbard and hilt. Here is an example of a Burmese dha with Chinese-influenced decorations: This sword was exhibited last year in Macau in the History of Steel Exhibition, and was featured on the front of the catalog that resulted from that effort. Ian. Last edited by Ian; 6th July 2007 at 08:57 PM.

5th July 2007, 06:41 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	This is one that I think can be attributed to the Kachin, northern Burma. This short, three-part handle and the straight blade are generally typical of a Kachin sword-dha. The scabbard decoration is a Shan style, but there is a very intimate cultural connection between the Kachin and the Shan (at least in Burma), so that is not surprising.

5th July 2007, 07:26 PM	#3
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	That is interesting. It was found on the Chinese side of the border. Josh

5th July 2007, 07:48 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	That might be because access to sensitive parts of Burma is restricted as is parts of Nagaland and the Burmese border. So it may have travelled some very local trade routes.

5th July 2007, 09:01 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	There are Kachin and Shan on both sides of the border, actually, and historically strong trade links (don't know about today), so finding such a sword in China (I assume Yunnan Province) is not surprising.

5th July 2007, 09:17 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	China must be more relaxed and offers a bigger market.

5th July 2007, 11:06 PM	#8
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	I like the blade profile on this one. I hope it turns out to be nicely laminated. Also seems more typical of a Chinese blade profile than a dha profile. Please post some more blade pics when you get in hand.

6th July 2007, 04:38 PM	#10
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	That is an intriguing mishmash of styles. The carnelians on the scabbard remind me very strongly of Tibetan work. I am fascinated with influences at the border regions of China. Mostly I have looked at Chinese/Tibetan stylistic attributes, but this last dha seems to go around the corner as it were from Sichuan to Yunnan and down to Burma. The daidao I posted does seem to have a stronger Chinese influence in its blade than others I have seen from Yunnan province. I am looking forward to seeing how it is constructed. It is almost certainly laminated, but I think with a less pronounced pattern than one would find in Tibetan or Yi blades. The pattern may be difficult to see without some work. How would the blade be attached to the handle? Is the tang peened over at the end? While I am thinking about border influences, does anyone know anything about the Yi from Yunnan? Would they use a dha/daidao or stay with the zhebeidao as found in Sichuan? I have a decent idea now what to expect from the Northern Yi, but I have never seen anything from their southern cousins. There is supposedly a strong Burmese influence. Josh

6th July 2007, 08:18 PM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Josh: You raise some interesting quesions about Sino-border styles, and the likeness to Tibetan decorative style is apparent in the example I posted. The sword dha favored by the Kachin was found throughout the range they previously occupied in the 18th and 19th C, which extended as far west as Assam. Such westward migration would have brought them into fairly close proximity to Tibet, so a direct connection may be possible. That particular sword has some age to it, and is probably a 19th C. example. Ian.

8th July 2007, 03:30 PM	#12
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	The blade most likely has a very short tang (2 to 3 inches), pressure fit in the handle and affixed with resin. Full tangs, peened or otherwise, are very rare in dha & daab.