Old Javanese keris for comment

[alexish]

Please comment on this Javanese Keris that appears to be old. The wrongko is pretty unusual. Any idea which part of Java this keris originate from?

[A. G. Maisey]

I do not know where this is from, what I do know is that it is mix of styles, but on the face of it, those styles seemed intended, as in, I doubt that this is a dealer's melange.

The blade is unremarkable, low quality work, but it does have a suggestion of Madura/East Jawa.

The top part of the scabbard (atasan, gambar) has a tendency towards Madura form, but it does not conform to any style that I have seen. I say that it leans to Madura because of those little bumps at each end --- some Madura ladrangs have a similar bump at one end, with the bump at the other end much less pronounced.

The pendok looks like Banyumas, but again, Madura pendoks sometimes have a lis (the little collar around the top), however, the motif is not like anything I would expect on a Madura pendok.

The mendak/selut looks like South Sumatera, but the scallops seem to have been aligned to the flat planes of the hilt, which is Central Javanese in style.

There is a tendency to drop things that we cannot clearly identify into a basket that nobody really knows the contents of, and there are a lot of towns and areas right across Jawa where people wore keris, but they were not under the direct influence of any kraton, so in these places styles can get a bit mixed up, or distorted.

But there is another place where people from over-populated Jawa and Madura went to settle and where they still wore keris, but when they made new dress for a keris they worked on memory and added enhancements that did not fit into the society from which they came.

That place was Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo.

This is a pure guess, as I said, I do not know where this keris is from, but I wonder if it might be able to be attributed to Kalimantan?

[Battara]

The selut looks suassa to me.

[A. G. Maisey]

I thought the same. but it does not look like an adaptation, it looks like it was made for this hilt.

[alexish]

Any comments on the Pendok - does it tend towards Solo or Jogja style?

I believe it is antique silver.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The pendok looks like Banyumas, but again, Madura pendoks sometimes have a lis (the little collar around the top), however, the motif is not like anything I would expect on a Madura pendok.

Hello Alan,

would agree with you by the general style but is the top part not to much concave for a Banyumas pendok?

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by alexish

Any comments on the Pendok - does it tend towards Solo or Jogja style?

I believe it is antique silver.

Hello Alexish,

Alan give already a hint towards Banyumas, Central Java. But for sure not Solo or Yogya IMVHO.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

The pendok might be silver, but it much more likely to mamas --- in any case, its very easy to test.

The curve of the pendok doesn't bother me Detlef. I've seen a lot of variation in this with Banyumas pendoks, I doubt that it is something that we can use to guide us.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The curve of the pendok doesn't bother me Detlef. I've seen a lot of variation in this with Banyumas pendoks, I doubt that it is something that we can use to guide us.

You have seen/handled for sure a lot more as I am so you will be correct, all I've seen are nearly straight or only a little bit curved at the mouth.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

No, not necessarily, I do not pay nearly as much attention as most people to dress variation, from my perspective dress is not very important at all, more or less just a curiosity.

[Jean]

I fully agree with Alan's opinion but would like to add 2 detailed comments:
. The ganja is quite straight while the scabbard atasan is very curved even in its center part so I think that the blade & scabbard are not originally matching.
. The pendok shows a gap with the gandar on the top left corner so I think that it is also not the original one.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Jean, your observations are correct, but when I also noted these, my thoughts were that we would really need to see and handle this keris to be sure about what was happening with it. Look at the curve in the top of the gambar, it is quite steep, but after the initial"kick", it seems to flatten out, maybe this blade sits reasonably well in the gambar.

One of the rules of thumb that a m'ranggi will use in fitting a blade is not that the curve of the gonjo must follow the curve of the gambar, but that the sirah cecak and the buntut urang should be covered, now, if we get a slightly less than expert m'ranggi, what he is likely to do is to permit the form of the gambar to be prioritised over the shape of the gonjo.

With the fit of the pendok, that can depend upon the thickness of the gambar, and if the gambar form is prioritised over the fit of pendok --- something that does not really matter, because when worn we do not see the transition from pendok to gambar --- then of course there will be gaps. We find this often enough in run of the mill Central Jawa pieces, so for something like this ensemble, which is way outside the mainstream, the pendok fit to me, does not seem to be very important.

Of course, with it in the hand, all prognostications could well be reversed.

The thing that makes me think this is not a dealer's melange is the fit of that selut/mendak to the hilt, it looks like it was made for it. If this sort of trouble was taken, it seems likely that there would have been some effort go into the rest of it, even if it was slightly misdirected effort.

[Jean]

Alexish, could you please show us the pics of the blade inside the scabbard both from side and top view? It will help to assess if the fitting was original or not.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

wrong hole

[alexish]

Originally Posted by Jean

Alexish, could you please show us the pics of the blade inside the scabbard both from side and top view? It will help to assess if the fitting was original or not.
Regards

Dear Jean,

My apologies. If I remember correctly, this Keris was auctioned off by Hermann Historica a couple of months ago. The image was saved from their website. I believe that this is still in compliance with the forum rules, because the keris has already been sold. My apologies, in case I have unknowingly breached any forum rules.

Besides my curiosity on the origin of this piece, I am considering whether it is worthwhile asking a mranggi to copy the wrongko design for a keris blade of mine, if it is a genuine old design. I actually quite like the aesthetics of the wrongko design. Any comments on the aesthetics of the wrongko design?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by alexish

Besides my curiosity on the origin of this piece, I am considering whether it is worthwhile asking a mranggi to copy the wrongko design for a keris blade of mine, if it is a genuine old design. I actually quite like the aesthetics of the wrongko design. Any comments on the aesthetics of the wrongko design?

Hi Alexish,

I personally like this style, very pleasing to the eye.

Regards,
Detlef