Philippine (?) spearhead for comments & ID

Ferguson · 22nd April 2006, 09:51 PM

I was looking for khukuris on Ebay when I found a khuk, spearhead, and a puukko in the same auction. All my favorites in the same auction! How lucky is that? The spearhead looked promising, but I didn't get my hopes up. Pictures can be so deceiving. It looks Philippine? Moro? It's laminated, but the pattern is subtle. Thanks for any comments.
Steve

as received

Rick · 22nd April 2006, 10:09 PM

Sure looks like a Moro budiak to me .

Lew · 23rd April 2006, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Sure looks like a Moro budiak to me .

Hey Steve that was a fast clean up job on the spear.It's a real nice budiak.

Lew

Ferguson · 23rd April 2006, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Hey Steve that was a fast clean up job on the spear.It's a real nice budiak.

Lew

Thanks guys. I HATE RUST!

Steve

panday · 23rd April 2006, 05:05 AM

Here's another Budiak Spearhead

Rick · 23rd April 2006, 04:21 PM

And another ...

I'm always amazed at how short the tangs on these blades are

panday · 23rd April 2006, 04:55 PM

Rick, is that a twisted core spearhead? what a beauty

Rick · 23rd April 2006, 05:02 PM

Hi Panday , I guess it is ; the veins of metal stand up a little ; you can feel them when you run your fingertip over the panel .
Best thing is that it's pretty much complete with ferrule shaft and tailpiece .

The head's a tad wiggly but I figure it's probably an old one .

Ferguson · 23rd April 2006, 07:23 PM

Rick, if it's not too much trouble, could you please post pics of the ferrule and the tailpiece? I was toying with the idea of mounting mine and would like to know what the ferrule looks like.
Thanks!

Steve

Edit: That is gorgeous! And Panday, thanks for the picture of your very nice piece.

Battara · 23rd April 2006, 08:30 PM

Beautiful puppy Panday. Possibly an early budiak?

Rick · 23rd April 2006, 08:47 PM

Here you go Steve ,
The buttcap I added to ; originally this spear came with the two dark metal sleeves you see in the picture . The end of the spear had been drilled to accept a butt spike which was missing . I got lucky and found one on ebay made from brass ; to completely cap the end I bought a vintage brass 10 Ga. shotgun shell and drilled out the center ; the shell just fit under the original sleeves and the spike then went into the hole drilled through the shell casing .
It seemed to me a nice way to finish off an obviously incomplete end for the spear ; all pieces are vintage and could have been found in the Philippines in the 19th C. making it within the realm of plausibility as a treatment for this spear .

The ferrule is a casting and would require either a talented machinist to fabricate from brass stock or would need to be made out of jeweler's wax and fabricated with the lost wax casting method .

This budiak also has a waisted haft that swells at either end where it meets the fittings .

Rick · 23rd April 2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Beautiful puppy Panday. Possibly an early budiak?

Is that inlay Panday ?

panday · 23rd April 2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Is that inlay Panday ?

Yes Rick, that's an inlay, not sure what type of metal though, I was gonna say silver, but it's kind of reddish yellow, any idea?

Rick · 23rd April 2006, 09:38 PM

Mmmmmmmm .. Suassa .
Really a beautiful point Panday !

Lew · 23rd April 2006, 10:05 PM

Hi Ferg

Here are two from my collection.The smaller one may help you with your rehafting project.

Good Luck

Lew

Ferguson · 24th April 2006, 02:50 AM

Nice inlay Panday.

Lew and Rick thanks! Those pictures are just what I needed.

Steve

Rick · 24th April 2006, 03:03 AM

Ferg , you could easily make a ferrule like Lew's ; I would suggest using at least 6ga. Sterling sheet folded on the edge , formed around a ring mandrel and then soldered on a soldering mandrel while held together with iron wire .
Of course your silver sheet will have to be fan shaped in outline .
I'm willing to bet that Battara has the right equipment for this work .

I used to .

Silver is really fun to work with .

Ian · 24th April 2006, 04:12 AM

Probably brass, perhaps with more copper than usual.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by panday

Rick,

Yes Rick, that's an inlay, not sure what type of metal though, I was gonna say silver, but it's kind of reddish yellow, any idea?

pinoy · 24th April 2006, 03:19 PM

[QUOTE=Ferguson]I was looking for khukuris on Ebay when I found a khuk, spearhead, and a puukko in the same auction. All my favorites in the same auction! How lucky is that? The spearhead looked promising, but I didn't get my hopes up. Pictures can be so deceiving. It looks Philippine? Moro? It's laminated, but the pattern is subtle. Thanks for any comments.
Steve

Hi Ferguson, how much time did it take you to clean that spear head? Can you share how did you do it? I have some spears here which I am planning to clean then etch it after. Many thanks.

Ferguson · 24th April 2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinoy

Hi Ferguson, how much time did it take you to clean that spear head? Can you share how did you do it? I have some spears here which I am planning to clean then etch it after. Many thanks.

Pinoy,
I'll be happy to tell you how I did it, just proceed with caution so as not to ruin an antique. I spent about an hour cleaning and etching. My methods will probably not be approved of by some, and shouldn't be used on an expensive or rare antique without more knowledge than I have.

Since I was planning to etch, I wasn't concerned about removing the patina. It had active rust and some slight pitting. I started sanding with 400 grit wet-or-dry silicon carbide sandpaper. After I had cleaned off the rust, I continued with 600, 800, 1000, and 1500 grit. This type of sandpaper is sold at auto parts stores and is used to sand car bodies for painting. It works better wet. I use spray window cleaner that contains ammonia. The high ph of the ammonia keeps the steel from rusting quickly like water would. The liquid keeps the sandpaper from loading up. You have to be careful not to round off any of the edges. If I'm sanding a sword, I will use a small wooden block to sand flat areas. You also have to be careful around the edge. I've cut myself pretty badly before when I slipped.

Steve Ferguson

Lew · 24th April 2006, 07:50 PM

If I'm sanding a sword, I will use a small wooden block to sand flat areas. You also have to be careful around the edge. I've cut myself pretty badly before when I slipped.

Steve Ferguson[/QUOTE]

Hey Steve

I see! Thats why they call you Four Fingers Ferguson

Lew

Ferguson · 25th April 2006, 01:07 AM

Lew, I've still got them all, they just look funny.

Steve

pinoy · 25th April 2006, 05:14 AM

Thanks Steve, yeah I know how it feels like to be cut. I had my share of experiences.

panday · 26th April 2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Beautiful puppy Panday. Possibly an early budiak?

Thanks Battara, this puppy will be paying you a visit soon

kai · 27th April 2006, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panday

Yes Rick, that's an inlay, not sure what type of metal though, I was gonna say silver, but it's kind of reddish yellow, any idea?

Hello Panday,

I'm pretty sure that's really silver (alloy). I've seen this kind of yellowish "patina" with several blades (probably all etched with fruits) - one example would be this inlayed kris: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1243 (the uncleaned inlay looked even more brownish/dark-yellowish than the pics shown).

Regards,
Kai

panday · 27th April 2006, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Panday,

I'm pretty sure that's really silver (alloy). I've seen this kind of yellowish "patina" with several blades (probably all etched with fruits) - one example would be this inlayed kris: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1243 (the uncleaned inlay looked even more brownish/dark-yellowish than the pics shown).

Regards,
Kai

You're probably right Kai, I just finished comparing the tone of your Krises inlay to my spearhead's, they're about thesame.

Thanks,
panday

panday · 27th April 2006, 06:18 AM

Btw Kai, how did that restoration on that Kris came out, can you post photos pls.

Thanks,
panday

Battara · 27th April 2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panday

Thanks Battara, this puppy will be paying you a visit soon

OH BOY, OH BOY, OH BOY!....

Battara · 27th April 2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Panday,

I'm pretty sure that's really silver (alloy). I've seen this kind of yellowish "patina" with several blades (probably all etched with fruits) - one example would be this inlayed kris: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1243 (the uncleaned inlay looked even more brownish/dark-yellowish than the pics shown).

Regards,
Kai

Kai, you make a good point. Especially if the copper content is high, like in coin silver (80% silver 20% copper) or lower, the patina/tarnish can look yellow or even brown versus the usual black for sterling (92% silver 8% copper) or higher.

Battara · 27th April 2006, 06:35 PM

Oh yes, and just for the halibut (

) here is another spear head that I have mounted with my armour:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1963

22nd April 2006, 09:51 PM	#1
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Philippine (?) spearhead for comments & ID I was looking for khukuris on Ebay when I found a khuk, spearhead, and a puukko in the same auction. All my favorites in the same auction! How lucky is that? The spearhead looked promising, but I didn't get my hopes up. Pictures can be so deceiving. It looks Philippine? Moro? It's laminated, but the pattern is subtle. Thanks for any comments. Steve as received

23rd April 2006, 05:05 AM	#5
panday Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 50	Here's another Budiak Spearhead Attached Images

23rd April 2006, 08:47 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Too Much Work For A Sunday Here you go Steve , The buttcap I added to ; originally this spear came with the two dark metal sleeves you see in the picture . The end of the spear had been drilled to accept a butt spike which was missing . I got lucky and found one on ebay made from brass ; to completely cap the end I bought a vintage brass 10 Ga. shotgun shell and drilled out the center ; the shell just fit under the original sleeves and the spike then went into the hole drilled through the shell casing . It seemed to me a nice way to finish off an obviously incomplete end for the spear ; all pieces are vintage and could have been found in the Philippines in the 19th C. making it within the realm of plausibility as a treatment for this spear . The ferrule is a casting and would require either a talented machinist to fabricate from brass stock or would need to be made out of jeweler's wax and fabricated with the lost wax casting method . This budiak also has a waisted haft that swells at either end where it meets the fittings .

23rd April 2006, 10:05 PM	#15
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Ferg Here are two from my collection.The smaller one may help you with your rehafting project. Good Luck Lew Attached Images

27th April 2006, 06:35 PM	#30
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Oh yes, and just for the halibut ( ) here is another spear head that I have mounted with my armour: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1963 Attached Images Last edited by Battara; 27th April 2006 at 06:49 PM.

22nd April 2006, 10:09 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Sure looks like a Moro budiak to me .

23rd April 2006, 04:21 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	And another ... I'm always amazed at how short the tangs on these blades are

23rd April 2006, 04:55 PM	#7
panday Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 50	Rick, is that a twisted core spearhead? what a beauty

23rd April 2006, 05:02 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Hi Panday , I guess it is ; the veins of metal stand up a little ; you can feel them when you run your fingertip over the panel . Best thing is that it's pretty much complete with ferrule shaft and tailpiece . The head's a tad wiggly but I figure it's probably an old one .

23rd April 2006, 07:23 PM	#9
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Rick, if it's not too much trouble, could you please post pics of the ferrule and the tailpiece? I was toying with the idea of mounting mine and would like to know what the ferrule looks like. Thanks! Steve Edit: That is gorgeous! And Panday, thanks for the picture of your very nice piece.

23rd April 2006, 08:30 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Beautiful puppy Panday. Possibly an early budiak?

23rd April 2006, 09:38 PM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Mmmmmmmm .. Suassa . Really a beautiful point Panday !

24th April 2006, 02:50 AM	#16
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Nice inlay Panday. Lew and Rick thanks! Those pictures are just what I needed. Steve

24th April 2006, 03:03 AM	#17
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Ferg , you could easily make a ferrule like Lew's ; I would suggest using at least 6ga. Sterling sheet folded on the edge , formed around a ring mandrel and then soldered on a soldering mandrel while held together with iron wire . Of course your silver sheet will have to be fan shaped in outline . I'm willing to bet that Battara has the right equipment for this work . I used to . Silver is really fun to work with .

24th April 2006, 03:19 PM	#19
pinoy Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14	[QUOTE=Ferguson]I was looking for khukuris on Ebay when I found a khuk, spearhead, and a puukko in the same auction. All my favorites in the same auction! How lucky is that? The spearhead looked promising, but I didn't get my hopes up. Pictures can be so deceiving. It looks Philippine? Moro? It's laminated, but the pattern is subtle. Thanks for any comments. Steve Hi Ferguson, how much time did it take you to clean that spear head? Can you share how did you do it? I have some spears here which I am planning to clean then etch it after. Many thanks.

24th April 2006, 07:50 PM	#21
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	If I'm sanding a sword, I will use a small wooden block to sand flat areas. You also have to be careful around the edge. I've cut myself pretty badly before when I slipped. Steve Ferguson[/QUOTE] Hey Steve I see! Thats why they call you Four Fingers Ferguson Lew

25th April 2006, 01:07 AM	#22
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Lew, I've still got them all, they just look funny. Steve

25th April 2006, 05:14 AM	#23
pinoy Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14	Thanks Steve, yeah I know how it feels like to be cut. I had my share of experiences.

27th April 2006, 06:18 AM	#27
panday Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 50	Btw Kai, how did that restoration on that Kris came out, can you post photos pls. Thanks, panday