Weird cavalry sword opinions

Skarts_ss · 21st September 2020, 11:52 PM

Hi all,
I would like your opinion in this weird sword.
Looks like old blade.
Weird scabbard
Any thoughts?

Skarts_ss · 21st September 2020, 11:53 PM

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Skarts_ss · 21st September 2020, 11:54 PM

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Skarts_ss · 22nd September 2020, 12:01 AM

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Will M · 22nd September 2020, 01:37 AM

Looks like an Arab sword with British influence in the hilt.

Jim McDougall · 23rd September 2020, 08:40 AM

Most interesting, and seems almost like a 'steampunk' interpretation of a Napoleonic hussar saber.
I have never seen a squared scabbard like this, and the opening at the throat of the scabbard part way down to allow withdrawal of the parabolic blade does recall many Ottoman shamshirs of 19th c.

The hilt is of course an interpretation of the British 'gothic' hilts of 19th c. from 1822+ for infantry officers swords and some other units. Usually the open oval carried royal cypher or unit devices.

The canted bird head pommel -backstrap reminded me of certain European saber hilts but could not find comparison.

The exaggerated drag on the scabbard chape is again a Napoleonic affectation.

Also interesting are the squared blocks on the blade, not sure what those are for.

Thought I would throw in some thoughts. Definitely an anomaly.

Will M · 23rd September 2020, 02:03 PM

Jim I didn't notice the blocks on the blade but they are positioned to fill in where the top and central scabbard bands are located.

Jim McDougall · 23rd September 2020, 05:12 PM

Thanks Will, I had not discerned that, which is again, odd as these blade fixtures become rather integral with scabbard. I know some British swords likely had these slotted scabbard openings for extremely parabolic blades in the manner of these Ottoman shamshirs (not the pala but with thin radiused Persian type blades) which I have (not avail right now) and appears late 18th-early 19th.

I note as well the rather mechanical 'markings' approximating the 'X's on Solingen blades often seen, but usually dispersed with inscriptions or names, and what appear to suggest 'sickle marks'. A lot of work went into this and actually quite attractive interpretation of a 'hussar' saber.
Again, it seems there have been these kinds of sabers in either Swedish, Danish or Dutch contexts, but comprehensive catalogs of their forms are both hard to find and typically incomplete.

Good call on the Arab (or Middle East) gestalt, and British officers often seem to have commissioned various features of swords of these cultures to be incorporated with established British ones (sort of East meets West).

The presence of pronounced 'yelman' on 1796 period officers sabers, and tulwar hilts on British blades is well known.

The Ottomans had a saber with the familiar pistol grip hilt with distinctly European knuckle guard added.

Good to know guys are reading this, hope maybe somebody out there has seen something similar.

kronckew · 24th September 2020, 01:08 AM

looks flank officer style. see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=flank+officer

and

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=flank+officer

21st September 2020, 11:52 PM	#1
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	Weird cavalry sword opinions Hi all, I would like your opinion in this weird sword. Looks like old blade. Weird scabbard Any thoughts? Attached Images

21st September 2020, 11:53 PM	#2
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	.. Attached Images

21st September 2020, 11:54 PM	#3
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	... Attached Images

22nd September 2020, 12:01 AM	#4
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	... Attached Images

23rd September 2020, 08:40 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Most interesting, and seems almost like a 'steampunk' interpretation of a Napoleonic hussar saber. I have never seen a squared scabbard like this, and the opening at the throat of the scabbard part way down to allow withdrawal of the parabolic blade does recall many Ottoman shamshirs of 19th c. The hilt is of course an interpretation of the British 'gothic' hilts of 19th c. from 1822+ for infantry officers swords and some other units. Usually the open oval carried royal cypher or unit devices. The canted bird head pommel -backstrap reminded me of certain European saber hilts but could not find comparison. The exaggerated drag on the scabbard chape is again a Napoleonic affectation. Also interesting are the squared blocks on the blade, not sure what those are for. Thought I would throw in some thoughts. Definitely an anomaly. Attached Images

22nd September 2020, 01:37 AM	#5
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Looks like an Arab sword with British influence in the hilt.

23rd September 2020, 02:03 PM	#7
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Jim I didn't notice the blocks on the blade but they are positioned to fill in where the top and central scabbard bands are located.

23rd September 2020, 05:12 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Thanks Will, I had not discerned that, which is again, odd as these blade fixtures become rather integral with scabbard. I know some British swords likely had these slotted scabbard openings for extremely parabolic blades in the manner of these Ottoman shamshirs (not the pala but with thin radiused Persian type blades) which I have (not avail right now) and appears late 18th-early 19th. I note as well the rather mechanical 'markings' approximating the 'X's on Solingen blades often seen, but usually dispersed with inscriptions or names, and what appear to suggest 'sickle marks'. A lot of work went into this and actually quite attractive interpretation of a 'hussar' saber. Again, it seems there have been these kinds of sabers in either Swedish, Danish or Dutch contexts, but comprehensive catalogs of their forms are both hard to find and typically incomplete. Good call on the Arab (or Middle East) gestalt, and British officers often seem to have commissioned various features of swords of these cultures to be incorporated with established British ones (sort of East meets West). The presence of pronounced 'yelman' on 1796 period officers sabers, and tulwar hilts on British blades is well known. The Ottomans had a saber with the familiar pistol grip hilt with distinctly European knuckle guard added. Good to know guys are reading this, hope maybe somebody out there has seen something similar. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 23rd September 2020 at 09:05 PM.

24th September 2020, 01:08 AM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	looks flank officer style. see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=flank+officer and http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=flank+officer