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#1 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
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Picked this one up today. Solid 'white metal'. Was quite tarnished and oxidised.
Nickel, white brass or low grade silver? It marks very easily so is quite soft. Quality seems good, it feels absolutely amazing in hand. Like a real fighter, great grip, comfortable and a good range of movement. Can anyone add any information? Age, area, material? I've seen plenty of brass and steel but never solid 'silver' metal. |
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#2 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
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white metal ... ... absolutely Indian specialty what it is made ?? very good question .... I never got an answer ![]() to make your own idea ... type on "google" "indian white metal" ==> About 3,430,000 results (0.23 seconds) and ... have a nice time for reading ![]() I know how it's looks, I have at home a double door, what I know ... it's looks like silver it's not a silver it's looks like nickel it's not a nickel it's looks like stainless steel it's lnot a stainless steel ... it's "white metal" ... ![]() but I dunno more, even under torture, don't try ... I'll not speak ![]() à + Dom |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 689
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Gene: I advice you to buy the silver testing acid. It costs around 2 Euro, and it wasn't a problem to order it on Internet even here, in Germany. It will definitely be the most useful buy :-)
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
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LOL, thanks Dom,
So you think it might not be silver then? ![]() Hi Tatyana, It's a good idea! The metal is soft, I straightened the langlets by hand, I think it's quite a good quality hilt. Any further ideas anyone? |
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#5 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,200
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Both would be soft, silver even more. I agree with Tatyana either get a testing kit or take it to a jeweler for testing. I could be either white metal (usually nickel-copper alloy) or low silver (75-80%).
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#6 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Thanks ![]() Any thoughts on age, region, quality? P.S. It's probobly white brass in all honesty. I'll have a look and see if I can find a cheap silver test kit that'll test the lower grade silvers. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
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Hi Gene,
some interesting info here, nothing conclusive though http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=sind Regards David |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
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Hello Atlantia. Can't add much here in the knowledge department. But have to comment that is a beautiful hilt !!! It would be interesting to find out if it is/is not silver. Is there any evidence that a blade was attached sometime in the past? Again, great looking hilt. Rick.
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#9 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
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Thanks I looked there first tbh. Nothing like mine unfortunately. My initial thoughts were that it's a 'dressy' palace guard or military style hilt. Type of hilt where you'd want some uniformity, but also something well made and quite flash. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
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There are Indian grips like the one you have, if yours is of silver, is so far unknown as it seems. Some of the others are like yours and some have leaves, but general showing the same design. As I understand it, most of the others have silver hilts - but there may also be other metal combinations.
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#11 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Thanks for the help. Do you have any idea of origin or date? I'll get a silver test kit, but it's probobly just 'white metal'. Thanks Gene |
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#12 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
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Hi Gene,
I cannot resist completely agreeing with everyone, this is a beautiful hilt, and though far from being a metallurgist, it surely seems silver to me! It seems to me that silver was not typical in Indian hilts, though obviously there were likely exceptions. Also, the 'chevron' pattern on the grip to me recalls many Indian blades, often on tulwars, made in alternating light and dark colored metal. These were highly symbolic and apparantly represented the two most important rivers in many perceptions in India; the Ganges (light) and the Yamuni (dark). These chevron pattern blade swords were termed 'ganga-yamuni' (Pant. p.96, fig. LXXXVII). These appear to have been from Rajasthan regions as early as mid 18th century, but most known appear later in the 19th. With this hilt in silver, with the unusual grip motif, and with conspicuous absence of floral or the often seen other motif, especially on the pommel disc, I am wondering if this might be a latter 19th century example somehow connected to the British Raj, as it appears a hilt form more common to 'court' type swords of the Northwest. Perhaps the somewhat well known tulwars with chevron blades (some of these parade swords of the 'tears of the wounded' style) may have had influence on a weapon intended for such use. Very nice!!! ![]() All the best, Jim |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10
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ITS NICKEL. I TOLD YOU THAT WHEN YOU BOUGHT IT.
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#14 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
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Try the Caps lock. ![]() Pure Nickel would be nice, but it's more likely an alloy (that possibly includes Nickel). Cupronickel, 'white copper' etc. One of the family of 'white metals' used to simulate Silver at lesser cost. Like Alpacca (white copper) is often called 'German Silver'. If memory serves, pure Nickel is actually magnetic, so that would also suggest that this is an alloy. |
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#15 | |
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Fantastic Information Jim, I'll digest it all after work, thank you. Best Gene |
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#16 | |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
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How eloquent ![]() |
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#17 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Hi Jim, Thanks again for the Info. Of course, the chevron pattern! LOL, funny how something can be right in front of you and still remain 'hidden'. I've always loved those chevron blades. I had absolutely no idea that they had such significance! You are a mine of information, 'ganga-yamuni', light and dark! Great observations about this type of hilt and the possibility of a connection with the Raj, serious food for thought, thank you again! Best Gene P.S. Just as an interesting aside on the question of testing for Silver itself. I found an interesting note on two simple methods of using Sulphur. Thought it might be of use to members with white metal items. Presumably the darker and more 'black' the colour, the higher the silver content. "FRENCH'S BRAND YELLOW MUSTARD TEST This first method requires that the tester apply a very small amount of French's brand yellow mustard to the surface of the shiny metal. Ideally the mustard drop should then be heated, either in the sun or with a cigarette lighter. Let me explain; this brand of mustard contains a very high amount of sulfur and when heated the volatile sulfur molecule will ALWAYS combine with pure silver to make the dark black stain known as silver sulfide (which is easily cleaned away with vinegar by the way). THE SULFUR MATCH TEST The second method may attract more attention than desired, especially when attempted inside a store, under a proprietor's watchful gaze. Yet this method is even more effective take a match and press it against the metal surface to be tested and then light it on fire with another match. The sulfur is extremely hot as it combusts and it will certainly combine with pure silver when ignited in this fashion. It will not however mark nickel, steel, or chrome or any other shiny metal the way it marks silver (a black stain). Again this dark metal is silver sulfide it will not wipe away with your finger and must be cleaned off the metal with another agent. Its important to note that both of these tests will not harm the metal and can be easily cleaned away." Last edited by Atlantia; 12th May 2011 at 09:23 PM. |
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#18 |
Arms Historian
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Location: Route 66
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You bet Gene!!! and thank you for the testing tips.....I'll file away for future reference. It really is amazing how impressive silver is on one of these hilts even without floral motif, sometimes simplicity can be stunning!
![]() All the best, Jim |
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#19 |
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Location: Kent
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Interesting ways of silver testing, thanks Gene also found this....
Cool Down Use an ice cube to test the purity of your silver. This process works best with smaller pieces, such as silverware. Take a small ice cube, and place it on your silver item. If the entire utensil cools down within 10 seconds, you are working with real silver. If it takes closer to 30 seconds, it may be silver plated. This test is not the most scientific, but it will be a broad indicator and will help you decide whether you would like to test further. All the best David |
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#20 | |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
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