3 Balinese 'working' kerises

BluErf · 5th December 2004, 07:20 AM

Finally got around to taking pictures of my Balinese kerises. Nothing spectacular, but good solid, working pieces.

BluErf · 5th December 2004, 07:24 AM

2nd one.

BluErf · 5th December 2004, 07:25 AM

3rd one.

BluErf · 5th December 2004, 07:26 AM

Group pic.

nechesh · 5th December 2004, 05:11 PM

I don't know, Kai Wee, the dress are nothing spectacular (though i've always been fond of those "accordian hilts and that's nice timoho), but the blades are all pretty solid and certainly nothing i wouldn't be happy to have in my own collection. Personally, i've always found some of the more high-end jewel studded and gold Bali dresses a bit too gaudy for my tastes (oh, maybe i would like to own just one

) Push come to shove it's always the blade that's important for me. I've seen a ton of over dressed mediocre blades selling for way too much money. If these were mine i would look into finding some higher end uwers (mendaks) for them. You'd be surprised (or maybe not) just how much nicer it can make a good keris in a plain dress look.

BluErf · 6th December 2004, 03:16 PM

Heh... doesn't that sound like people too? People with lots of money, but poor character, and people with great character, but a bit lacking in the cash department. heheheh

I guess we are first and foremost blade guys. The trimmings can always be added later with a bit of patience and research. The blade -- now that's the tough one because no one makes them the way they used to.

The 1st keris is a keris pedang and has notches and nicks on the forward-facing top one-third of the edge. Light yet very strong, it has always struck me as a fighting blade, right down to the animal (horse?) hair braiding on the hilt. Its a really firm grip.

The 2nd keris is probably the youngest of the 3 blades. Its light, but I don't feel so confident about its strength. Its got a great spine and all the perabots and deep grooves, but the piece has a very 'slightly awkward' feel to it. The lines don't flow as well as the last piece.

The last keris was covered in rust when I found it. Its a real biter. It bit me so many times when I tried to clean it and there are many rust spots that are so deep and stubborn that I have no way of removing them without taking away the beautiful dapur. This blade has some heft to it, and I suspect would make as good a slasher as a thruster. Its tempered halfway down the blade! A first for my Balinese keris collection. The dapur is also the most refined. I think this will be the 1st keris that I'll start putting gold pendok back on. I just need more examples and good pictures.

nechesh · 6th December 2004, 11:06 PM

I agree, the last one is the nicest of the three. You might want to consider really giving it a good cleaning to remove the deep seated rust and then having it restained to raise the pamor again. The pattern will probably rise much clearer than it is now. Probably not anywhere near #2, but it should get clearer. Then you can get that gold ready.

#1 and #3 look 19th century, but #2 looks like it could be mid 20thC. I think it may have been made more as a looker than a fighter.

zelbone · 7th December 2004, 04:48 AM

Nothing spectacular

!?!?!

Those are all very nice solid examples. Personally, I think the blades are all excellent examples. I'm no expert on Balinese weapons, but they all look very well made. Even the rather "plain" dress is well executed. Thanks for sharing these three with us!

nechesh · 7th December 2004, 12:49 PM

Yes Zel, nice solid pieces to be sure. I meant no real slight with my remark "nothing spectacular" which was a reference to the dress, but as Indonesian keris go, and especially Balinese keris, the dress here are really "nothing spectacular". See these examples on Pauls web site: http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~dspf/fren.html
Balinese keris can get pretty lavish.
But as Kai Wee points out, we are both blade men. Obviously this is the most important part of any keris. But in Indonesia you will also find a bit more care applied to dress than in the Moro kris based, i think, on the level of cultural statis applied.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 8th December 2004, 12:18 PM

Hey I'm not even a keris guy and I absolutely love the look of these blades. I for one do like lots of detail, but with these you don't need detail in the dress it's already there in the blade. Thanks I REALLY enjoyed these.

BluErf · 9th December 2004, 03:57 PM

Thank you. You guys are too kind.

But I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Raja Muda · 13th December 2004, 05:42 AM

Blu,

Just curious. I've seen footage of Balinese performing the Barong dance in a state of trance. Whenever they stab themselves, the keris blades they use could actually flex and bend. Does the same goes for yours?

BluErf · 14th December 2004, 04:53 PM

Heehee... that's the observation I had too.

My kerises flex, but not as much as the ones that they use in the Barong dance. The metal of the kerises that they use seem to be very 'springy'. Also, the blades do not have prominent ada-ada like these 3 examples. I also notice that the kerises used in the dance are shorter Javanese/Madurese type. Not really Balinese kerises.

nechesh · 15th December 2004, 11:27 PM

Raja, i'm wondering when the film you saw dates from. It seems to me that the trance state achieved by the keris dancers is similar to the trances of intitiates in Vodoun ceremonies in Haiti. For the most part, these rituals, at least the ones in public spaces, are theatre pieces performed to entertain the tourists (though, unfortunately, there is not much tourism in Haiti these days). This, of course, was not always the case as these dances once held profound cultural significance for the Balinese people. I have never seen film of the keris dance, but there are some very interesting photographs taken back in 1949 by famed photojournalist Henri Catier Bresson. I believe his wife at the time was Balinese herself. It is difficult to tell with still photograph, but the keris used then do not appear to have much flex to them. All the blades appear straight and rigged and are being pushed with considerable force against the skin of the dancers. There is not enough detail to tell, but where i can see the hilts they appear to be of the Bali type. As for the blades, it is hard to tell. They are not of the extra long (17in. or more) Bali type, but neither are they short. To stab one's self requires the blade to be a bit less than arms length. Anyway, my point really is, i guess, that things ain't what they used to be. I don't think very springy blades were always used for this ceremony and the power of trance states and belief is not to be under estimated. Still, i would like to see the film you mentioned. Is it available anywhere?

Raja Muda · 16th December 2004, 04:04 AM

Hi Nechesh,
I have very bad short term memory but I'll try and recall nevertheless

The footage I saw was from a contemporary documentary on Discovery Travel and Adventure channel on satellite TV, probably made as recent as one or two years ago, though I only saw the documentary a few months ago. I think you might be able to get that on cable TV over there.
It was either Globe Trekker or something else.
I'm not sure if this particular dance was enacted for a tourist audience but if i could recall correctly, it was in a temple compound.
The dancers attempt to attack the witch Rangda and ended up stabbing themselves instead. A few things I noted, one, the skin and muscles on the chest becomes taut just before the dancers push the tip of the blades (with some force it seems!) often causing it to bend or flex.
I didn't get very clear views of the keris used. From afar they look like simple tilam upih or tilam sari straight blades, with simple tubular balinese ukiran, some so makeshift that they look like knife handles. I'm sure no pusaka was harmed during filming

If there's one thing the Tahitians and the Balinese share, it's the Austronesian genetic and linguistic roots (or Malayo-Polynesian in some older books) so I wouldn't be surprised at the parallels. Trance dances are probably a residue of pre-Hindu animism practised by the Balinese and other communities in Southeast Asia.

5th December 2004, 07:26 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Group pic. Attached Images

8th December 2004, 12:18 PM	#10
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Spectacular Hey I'm not even a keris guy and I absolutely love the look of these blades. I for one do like lots of detail, but with these you don't need detail in the dress it's already there in the blade. Thanks I REALLY enjoyed these.

13th December 2004, 05:42 AM	#12
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Bali Blu, Just curious. I've seen footage of Balinese performing the Barong dance in a state of trance. Whenever they stab themselves, the keris blades they use could actually flex and bend. Does the same goes for yours?

16th December 2004, 04:04 AM	#15
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Bali Trance Hi Nechesh, I have very bad short term memory but I'll try and recall nevertheless The footage I saw was from a contemporary documentary on Discovery Travel and Adventure channel on satellite TV, probably made as recent as one or two years ago, though I only saw the documentary a few months ago. I think you might be able to get that on cable TV over there. It was either Globe Trekker or something else. I'm not sure if this particular dance was enacted for a tourist audience but if i could recall correctly, it was in a temple compound. The dancers attempt to attack the witch Rangda and ended up stabbing themselves instead. A few things I noted, one, the skin and muscles on the chest becomes taut just before the dancers push the tip of the blades (with some force it seems!) often causing it to bend or flex. I didn't get very clear views of the keris used. From afar they look like simple tilam upih or tilam sari straight blades, with simple tubular balinese ukiran, some so makeshift that they look like knife handles. I'm sure no pusaka was harmed during filming If there's one thing the Tahitians and the Balinese share, it's the Austronesian genetic and linguistic roots (or Malayo-Polynesian in some older books) so I wouldn't be surprised at the parallels. Trance dances are probably a residue of pre-Hindu animism practised by the Balinese and other communities in Southeast Asia.

5th December 2004, 07:20 AM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	3 Balinese 'working' kerises Finally got around to taking pictures of my Balinese kerises. Nothing spectacular, but good solid, working pieces. Attached Images

5th December 2004, 07:24 AM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	2nd one. Attached Images

5th December 2004, 07:25 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	3rd one. Attached Images

5th December 2004, 05:11 PM	#5
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I don't know, Kai Wee, the dress are nothing spectacular (though i've always been fond of those "accordian hilts and that's nice timoho), but the blades are all pretty solid and certainly nothing i wouldn't be happy to have in my own collection. Personally, i've always found some of the more high-end jewel studded and gold Bali dresses a bit too gaudy for my tastes (oh, maybe i would like to own just one ) Push come to shove it's always the blade that's important for me. I've seen a ton of over dressed mediocre blades selling for way too much money. If these were mine i would look into finding some higher end uwers (mendaks) for them. You'd be surprised (or maybe not) just how much nicer it can make a good keris in a plain dress look.

6th December 2004, 03:16 PM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Heh... doesn't that sound like people too? People with lots of money, but poor character, and people with great character, but a bit lacking in the cash department. heheheh I guess we are first and foremost blade guys. The trimmings can always be added later with a bit of patience and research. The blade -- now that's the tough one because no one makes them the way they used to. The 1st keris is a keris pedang and has notches and nicks on the forward-facing top one-third of the edge. Light yet very strong, it has always struck me as a fighting blade, right down to the animal (horse?) hair braiding on the hilt. Its a really firm grip. The 2nd keris is probably the youngest of the 3 blades. Its light, but I don't feel so confident about its strength. Its got a great spine and all the perabots and deep grooves, but the piece has a very 'slightly awkward' feel to it. The lines don't flow as well as the last piece. The last keris was covered in rust when I found it. Its a real biter. It bit me so many times when I tried to clean it and there are many rust spots that are so deep and stubborn that I have no way of removing them without taking away the beautiful dapur. This blade has some heft to it, and I suspect would make as good a slasher as a thruster. Its tempered halfway down the blade! A first for my Balinese keris collection. The dapur is also the most refined. I think this will be the 1st keris that I'll start putting gold pendok back on. I just need more examples and good pictures.

6th December 2004, 11:06 PM	#7
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I agree, the last one is the nicest of the three. You might want to consider really giving it a good cleaning to remove the deep seated rust and then having it restained to raise the pamor again. The pattern will probably rise much clearer than it is now. Probably not anywhere near #2, but it should get clearer. Then you can get that gold ready. #1 and #3 look 19th century, but #2 looks like it could be mid 20thC. I think it may have been made more as a looker than a fighter.

7th December 2004, 04:48 AM	#8
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Nothing spectacular !?!?! Those are all very nice solid examples. Personally, I think the blades are all excellent examples. I'm no expert on Balinese weapons, but they all look very well made. Even the rather "plain" dress is well executed. Thanks for sharing these three with us!

7th December 2004, 12:49 PM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Yes Zel, nice solid pieces to be sure. I meant no real slight with my remark "nothing spectacular" which was a reference to the dress, but as Indonesian keris go, and especially Balinese keris, the dress here are really "nothing spectacular". See these examples on Pauls web site: http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~dspf/fren.html Balinese keris can get pretty lavish. But as Kai Wee points out, we are both blade men. Obviously this is the most important part of any keris. But in Indonesia you will also find a bit more care applied to dress than in the Moro kris based, i think, on the level of cultural statis applied.

9th December 2004, 03:57 PM	#11
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Thank you. You guys are too kind. But I'm glad you enjoyed it.

14th December 2004, 04:53 PM	#13
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Heehee... that's the observation I had too. My kerises flex, but not as much as the ones that they use in the Barong dance. The metal of the kerises that they use seem to be very 'springy'. Also, the blades do not have prominent ada-ada like these 3 examples. I also notice that the kerises used in the dance are shorter Javanese/Madurese type. Not really Balinese kerises.

15th December 2004, 11:27 PM	#14
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Raja, i'm wondering when the film you saw dates from. It seems to me that the trance state achieved by the keris dancers is similar to the trances of intitiates in Vodoun ceremonies in Haiti. For the most part, these rituals, at least the ones in public spaces, are theatre pieces performed to entertain the tourists (though, unfortunately, there is not much tourism in Haiti these days). This, of course, was not always the case as these dances once held profound cultural significance for the Balinese people. I have never seen film of the keris dance, but there are some very interesting photographs taken back in 1949 by famed photojournalist Henri Catier Bresson. I believe his wife at the time was Balinese herself. It is difficult to tell with still photograph, but the keris used then do not appear to have much flex to them. All the blades appear straight and rigged and are being pushed with considerable force against the skin of the dancers. There is not enough detail to tell, but where i can see the hilts they appear to be of the Bali type. As for the blades, it is hard to tell. They are not of the extra long (17in. or more) Bali type, but neither are they short. To stab one's self requires the blade to be a bit less than arms length. Anyway, my point really is, i guess, that things ain't what they used to be. I don't think very springy blades were always used for this ceremony and the power of trance states and belief is not to be under estimated. Still, i would like to see the film you mentioned. Is it available anywhere?