Yathagan - for comment and translation

[Martin Lubojacky]

This one is 71. 5 cms long, without sheath 69 cms, blade 55. 5 cms long, 2. 9 cms wide and thickness is 5 mms. The handle is made of hard polished wood, the blade is probably forged from folded steel. I cannot read arabic and would be pleased if you could help me with translation. I do not know origin ( I bought both this yathagan and previous "sabaghan" in Prague antique shop a few years ago).
Martin

[Martin Lubojacky]

Adding some additional photos

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

I cannot read arabic and would be pleased if you could help me with translation.

Hi Martin
inside the "Solimane star"
"MASHALLAH" either "WHATEVER ALLAH (GOD) WILLS"

inside the "tughra"
the buckle of the "tughra" means "AMAL" either "MADE BY"
then inside a name ABU BAKR and then second line indecipherable
probably, the second part of the name, but as it's not Arabic, cannot read it

very nice yatagans, specially the scabbard, who kept the leather part for suspension

à +

Dom

[Martin Lubojacky]

Thank you very much, Dom !

[Battara]

The ivory hilted sword looks like a Balkan hilt with a kilij blade.

Never seen that before.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Pls, could you direct me to a book, where one could find basic typology of yathagan handles ?

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

Pls, could you direct me to a book, where one could find basic typology of yathagan handles ?

There is none. In Astvatsaturian's book on Turkish weapons (in Russian), there is a table showing various yataghan hilt variants, but there is no attribution of hilts to geographic areas. Astvatsaturian does divide yataghans into basic groups (A, B, C, etc.), and makes some assumptions on origin, but admits these are just her own assumptions. She is wrong on some of them, like plaing Greek yataghans in Eastern Anatolia, for example. From what I recall, there is nothing like your yataghan in the book, except the hilt variant shown in the afore mentioned table.

Elgood's latest book only deals with main Balkan yataghan types, and Croatian and Turkish catalogues are just books with a lot of pictures and basic descriptions, but no attribuions. Well, the Turkish catalogue (in Turkish) acually classifies all yataghans as Otoman, which is not very helpful.

This one is obviously an unusual type with its straight blade, and I have not commented simply because I have no idea where it could be from. There are a lot of straight blade yataghans in the Croatian Museum catalogue, suggesting that straight blades were popular in the Western Balkans, but this one is more slender compared to the catalogue examples. The leather wrapping at the scabbard mouth is reminiscent of Asia Minor examples. The ears and the bolster are of a rare form.

Nice yataghan in any case.

Regards,
Teodor

[Martin Lubojacky]

Thanks for this info, Teodor
Regards,
Martin

[ariel]

I agree with Teodor 100%.
Pinpointing the exact origin of a particular yataghan is incredibly frustrating.
Often we refer to extraneous details, such as Teodor's leather wrapping, out of sheer desperation ( although in this case I would agree with him and put my cock on the same block:-)
I know of only few more or less reliable exceptions:
- Karabela-like handles usually suggest North Africa
- T-type handles are usually attributed to Asia Minor, more specifically to Zeibeks.
- Small-eared, silver handles with niello - usually said to be from Crete
- Integral bolster, pretty crude and sturdy blade - are almost certainly coming from Bulgaria ( karakulaks, more precisely)
-Round smooth corals - Foca ( as per Elgood)
- Finger indentations on the nandle - Balkans ( how wide across the area do you want to cast your net?)
- Large surfaces of plain unadorned silver - likely ( IMHO) Turkish manufacture.

- Precise inscription with an address and a zip code of the master may be helpful.
- Presence of Chinese hieroglyphs or a stamp " Made in India" might cast certain doubts re. Ottoman origin.

Did I miss anything even remotely reliable? Can anyone add to the list or correct my attributions?

All of them have enough " maybe-s" and "perhaps-s" than stray dogs have fleas. The State Tree of any "expert" is the Hedge:-) So, perhaps, more likely than not, I might be at least partially correct. Or so I hope........

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Trabzon piece owned by Lew, scabbard mouth somewhat similar.
Regards,
Norman.

[dana_w]

Great post. Maybe you can help me too. Can anyone translate this? I am not even sure I have the right side up!

Overall length with scabbard: 31”, w/o scabbard 29”, length of cutting edge: 22 1/2"

These photos are not up to my normal standards. I took them with a cheap camera I keep in the car for emergencies.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by dana_w

Maybe you can help me too. Can anyone translate this? I am not even sure I have the right side up!

Hi "dana"

1st line
AMAL ABDALLAH SAHEB SALEH ARA, YA MOHAMED KILA SHAFAAT either
MADE BY ABDALLAH OWNER SALEH AGHA (title for a civil or military officer) O MOHAMED, INTERCEDE ON BOTH, IN THIS WORLD AND IN THE HEREAFTER ...

2nd line
OM MATAK CHADRE SALEH YA KHAFYIA AL ALTAF WAGUENA MEMA NAKHAFeither GOD WHO HIDE WHAT WE DON'T KNOW

3rd line
TAWA KOULI ALA ALETE ABDO SALEH - SANA 1228 either I AM DEPENDING ON (GOD), YOUR SLAVE SALEH - DATE - 1812

two words, not Arabic, have escaped from the understanding of the translator, may be in Turkish language
line 2 "CHADRE SALEH" ??

fantastic yatagan, I should like to have of the same quality

à +

Dom

[dana_w]

Thanks Dom! That is very helpful.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Thank you, Teodor and Ariel, for introduction to the issue of yathagans.
When I was working in Africa, I always liked collecting on the remote countriside - one could make notice "collected here or there". But also this is questionable nowadays. When my colleague went to Ongota tribe in South Ethiopia 18 years ago (allegedly 2 days on foot from the road, car could not pass), he did not have any gift for those people. So I gave him dagger from Finland. So now, if the dagger is equipped with local Ongota sheath and belt, it could be a good confusion for a visitor-collector. I think something similar has always been happening - even during the 19 th century in the Mediterranean region...

[Battara]

This is a wonderful Balkan yataghan. Judging by the "ears" I would guess Bosnian. Would love to know if the scabbard was tarnished silver.....