A swivel cannon For comment

Cerjak · 14th November 2019, 11:06 AM

The peculiarity of this gun is that the touch hole normaly on te top of the breech is located in the side of the barrel with a pan.
It might help to determine the origin and may be the production period.
Over all 140 cm and 102 cm of barrel.
Caliber :37.4 mm
Weight 17.2 kg
any comment on it will be welcome.

Fernando K · 14th November 2019, 01:26 PM

Hi Cerjak

I can't say anything, but I wonder if the barrel is bronze or iron. In the first case, I would explain that the bread is melted at the same time as the barrel, and explain why the ear is at the side-

Affectionately

Kmaddock · 14th November 2019, 01:51 PM

HI Cerjak
The shape of the pan and the flared muzzle looks very similar to that on an Indian Jezail musket

looks interesting, congratulations on acquisition

Regards
Ken

Cerjak · 14th November 2019, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hi Cerjak

I can't say anything, but I wonder if the barrel is bronze or iron. In the first case, I would explain that the bread is melted at the same time as the barrel, and explain why the ear is at the side-

Affectionately

Dear Fernando.
the cannon has a very deep patina and it is difficult to be certain if it's iron or bronze. Traces of green oxide (at the junction of the handle and cannon) can be seen, which would also look like bronze. By scratching the surface maybe I'll have a chance to see.
Best

Jean-Luc

Cerjak · 14th November 2019, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

HI Cerjak
The shape of the pan and the flared muzzle looks very similar to that on an Indian Jezail musket

looks interesting, congratulations on acquisition

Regards
Ken

Hi KEN
Thank you for your comment ,it is exact that there is similarities to Indian Jezail barrels.
Best
CERJAK

GIO · 14th November 2019, 04:13 PM

[QUOTE=Cerjak]Dear Fernando.
the cannon has a very deep patina and it is difficult to be certain if it's iron or bronze.

You can try with a magnet

Cerjak · 14th November 2019, 04:18 PM

[QUOTE=GIO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Dear Fernando.
the cannon has a very deep patina and it is difficult to be certain if it's iron or bronze.

You can try with a magnet

Exact it is the easier way to determinate if it is or not Iron.

Will M · 14th November 2019, 04:35 PM

I would think originally it had a flintlock mechanism. The wood appears to be later without a way to mount a mechanism.

Cerjak · 14th November 2019, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

I would think originally it had a flintlock mechanism. The wood appears to be later without a way to mount a mechanism.

yes it could be a possibility

Cerjak · 14th November 2019, 06:25 PM

It is a Iron barrel .

thinreadline · 15th November 2019, 12:03 AM

the touch hole is identical to that on my Indian wall gun

Fernando K · 15th November 2019, 01:03 AM

Hi Cerjak

In my modest opinion, and if you want to continue the research, it could be determined through a study, if the barrel has been formed by forging, or by function, that is, if it is wrought iron or cast iron. I think it's with X-rays

Affectionately

kronckew · 15th November 2019, 08:44 AM

I note a set of fixed front and rear sights. They look like they are shorter than the band that is around the barrel to fit the trunnions and swivel pin. It does make me think it's a repurposed musket.

Also, what is that smaller diameter pin forward of the main swivel pin supposed to do? looks like it would prevent swivelling or downward elevations.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 15th November 2019, 06:49 PM

Please see #5 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=camel+cannon

Could this also be a camel gun? A lot of indication of something Indian going on here ...My camel gun is very similar. Take all the woodwork to one side and the barrel could easily be from a camel gun...

Here is a camel gun below usually fired from a crouched position or dismounted.

kronckew · 15th November 2019, 07:10 PM

Found a few camel guns while looking around. the last one seems a bit too modern tho.

The sepiatone one appears to show sights as well as a side touch hole and pan.

(the last photo is a joke of course)

Cerjak · 16th November 2019, 01:04 PM

Dear Ibrahiim and Kronckew
Many thanks for the pictures. ( I have attached the picture #5)
actually it is a possibility to not dismiss this gun could very well be a camel cannon.
Best
Cerjak

Philip · 19th November 2019, 05:29 AM

I wonder about the reaction of the typical camel to any one of those guns being discharged above its head. I've read somewhere that it takes a bit of training to accustom a cavalry horse to the sound of gunfire; do camels have a notably different disposition as a rule?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th November 2019, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

I wonder about the reaction of the typical camel to any one of those guns being discharged above its head. I've read somewhere that it takes a bit of training to accustom a cavalry horse to the sound of gunfire; do camels have a notably different disposition as a rule?

Yes they are trained to not notice the bangs and anyway they cannot run off as the firing is done when they are crouched and tethered. The guns are relatively quick to dismount completely but still the animals need to be tied so they cannot run off..They are funny creatures and even when trained can be spooked by a leaf blowing across their track and will bolt for the oddest excuse. They are trained to the camel stick. About ten camel sticks are used in a typical training program of a few weeks to bash the animal around the head until the stick breaks!! This is cruel but its how its done. consequently the beast is almost completely stick responsive except for a few additional guttural sounds from the handler. Conversely the stick is rather like a car key and the camel will not obey the rider unless he has one.

ACTUALLY THE STICKS SHOWN HERE ARE NOT THE MORE FLEXIBLE BAMBOO TYPE USED FOR CAMELS...BUT MORE THE DRESS ITEM..

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th November 2019, 12:11 PM

Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21529

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd November 2019, 07:40 AM

To keep a camel tapped into line here are the sticks which are indian bamboo known in arabia as erg.

On the left old and very expensive and on the right again costly single and multiple node sticks ...

Spottedbull · 1st January 2020, 12:56 PM

This cannon is fascinating to me. I had no idea that there was a such a thing as a camel cannon! As I looked at the photographs I had thought that it was rather like a matchlock barrel.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 2nd January 2020, 02:23 PM

The firing device is a matchlock form... Actually the thread landed here on European and I think it is obvious that it is Ethnographic thus I would suggest it be moved over there..

fernando · 2nd January 2020, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The firing device is a matchlock form... Actually the thread landed here on European and I think it is obvious that it is Ethnographic thus I would suggest it be moved over there..

Alright then. Let's;move it .

14th November 2019, 11:06 AM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	A swivel cannon For comment The peculiarity of this gun is that the touch hole normaly on te top of the breech is located in the side of the barrel with a pan. It might help to determine the origin and may be the production period. Over all 140 cm and 102 cm of barrel. Caliber :37.4 mm Weight 17.2 kg any comment on it will be welcome. Attached Images

15th November 2019, 06:49 PM	#14
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Please see #5 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=camel+cannon Could this also be a camel gun? A lot of indication of something Indian going on here ...My camel gun is very similar. Take all the woodwork to one side and the barrel could easily be from a camel gun... Here is a camel gun below usually fired from a crouched position or dismounted. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 15th November 2019 at 07:07 PM.

15th November 2019, 07:10 PM	#15
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Found a few camel guns while looking around. the last one seems a bit too modern tho. The sepiatone one appears to show sights as well as a side touch hole and pan. (the last photo is a joke of course) Attached Images

16th November 2019, 01:04 PM	#16
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Dear Ibrahiim and Kronckew Many thanks for the pictures. ( I have attached the picture #5) actually it is a possibility to not dismiss this gun could very well be a camel cannon. Best Cerjak Attached Images

23rd November 2019, 07:40 AM	#20
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	To keep a camel tapped into line here are the sticks which are indian bamboo known in arabia as erg. On the left old and very expensive and on the right again costly single and multiple node sticks ... Attached Images

14th November 2019, 01:26 PM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hi Cerjak I can't say anything, but I wonder if the barrel is bronze or iron. In the first case, I would explain that the bread is melted at the same time as the barrel, and explain why the ear is at the side- Affectionately

14th November 2019, 01:51 PM	#3
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	HI Cerjak The shape of the pan and the flared muzzle looks very similar to that on an Indian Jezail musket looks interesting, congratulations on acquisition Regards Ken

14th November 2019, 04:13 PM	#6
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	[QUOTE=Cerjak]Dear Fernando. the cannon has a very deep patina and it is difficult to be certain if it's iron or bronze. You can try with a magnet

14th November 2019, 04:35 PM	#8
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I would think originally it had a flintlock mechanism. The wood appears to be later without a way to mount a mechanism.

14th November 2019, 06:25 PM	#10
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	It is a Iron barrel .

15th November 2019, 12:03 AM	#11
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	the touch hole is identical to that on my Indian wall gun

15th November 2019, 01:03 AM	#12
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hi Cerjak In my modest opinion, and if you want to continue the research, it could be determined through a study, if the barrel has been formed by forging, or by function, that is, if it is wrought iron or cast iron. I think it's with X-rays Affectionately

15th November 2019, 08:44 AM	#13
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	I note a set of fixed front and rear sights. They look like they are shorter than the band that is around the barrel to fit the trunnions and swivel pin. It does make me think it's a repurposed musket. Also, what is that smaller diameter pin forward of the main swivel pin supposed to do? looks like it would prevent swivelling or downward elevations.

19th November 2019, 05:29 AM	#17
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	I wonder about the reaction of the typical camel to any one of those guns being discharged above its head. I've read somewhere that it takes a bit of training to accustom a cavalry horse to the sound of gunfire; do camels have a notably different disposition as a rule?

20th November 2019, 12:11 PM	#19
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21529

1st January 2020, 12:56 PM	#21
Spottedbull Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Maypearl, Texas USA Posts: 10	This cannon is fascinating to me. I had no idea that there was a such a thing as a camel cannon! As I looked at the photographs I had thought that it was rather like a matchlock barrel.

2nd January 2020, 02:23 PM	#22
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The firing device is a matchlock form... Actually the thread landed here on European and I think it is obvious that it is Ethnographic thus I would suggest it be moved over there..