![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]()
Hello friends, this is just ended:
http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...3D50%26fvi%3D1 How I have to call it? Dha or Dao? Comments are welcome. Thank you ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
|
![]()
Nice one Flavio
![]() I think this is a dao and not a dha but let us wait for the experts to input there opinions. Lew |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,781
|
![]()
I would say it was a dao as the distal end looks as if it is on the heavy side making fencing like moves a little clumsy, where as, even squared off dha are still relatively fast weapons. Just a guess.
Last edited by Tim Simmons; 13th August 2006 at 08:30 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]()
Hello Lew and Tim, thankyou. Any idea on the writing? Thanks
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
|
![]()
A nice , honest dao...congrats Flavio
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
|
![]() Quote:
Anglo Manipuri War - 1891 During the year 1891 taking the advantage of the quarrels among the princes of Manipur, the Britishers have tried to lay their hand in the matter of administration in Manipur. On a complain laid by Maharajah Surchandra the British planned to capture prince Tikendrajit (brother of Maharajah Kullachandra) the then Senapati of Manipur by force killing a great number of civilians. The effort was a great failure and in retaliation five British officers including the Chief Commissioner of Assam. J.W. Quinton were executed. The British Queen declared war on Manipur. Thus a great war, in which hundreds and thousands of Manipuris fought and sacrificed their lives for the protection of their motherland. The British had defeated Manipur. Lew |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]()
Thank you very much Lew!! But, if the war was in 1891, than the writing is wrong or maybe is the year when the sword was collected by the first western person?
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
|
![]() Quote:
The war lasted from 1891-93. KACHIN HILLS 1892-95 - 3 December 1892 to 3 March 1893: Punitive expeditions into the Kachin Hills. Lew |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]()
Ah
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 520
|
![]()
I agree kachin but I would call it a dha. A couple of years ago I would have called it a dao and placed it as assam. A good find
http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image422.jpg http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0002.htm http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0021.htm http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0048.htm http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0055.htm |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
|
![]()
I agree with JT. A Kachin (Jingpaw) dha. We've discussed these before, I believe.
These are, indeed, very similar to dao of the region, but there are distinctions. A longer, cylindrical handle, a longer/more slender blade with less pronounced flare from forte to the tip, and a two-sided scabbard. Probably a transitional form between this dao (top) and dha (bottom): Last edited by Andrew; 14th August 2006 at 01:10 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 987
|
![]()
Egerton calls these "fighting" dao, as distinguished from the shorter and heavier "dao," in the text, but referring to one illustrated (#205, Fig. 19) he just calls it a sword. There is a Jingpaw word, "nhtu," which means "sword" (according to Leach, Political Systems of Highland Burma) but I don't know if it refers to the longer or shorter version.
I'm a little up in the air at the moment about whether to call these dao or dha, but I favor dha. I have never seen where or why swords from the Naga & Kachin hills were even called "dao," for one thing. "Dha" is a Burmese word, though, so its probably not what a Jingpaw would have called his sword. Something curious: looking at the tip of the scabbard, the two halves appear mis-matched, but not at the top. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
|
![]()
Once again, we find ourselves struggling to put a name to a weapon. I guess we're talking about two things here, really. First, what do we call this thing and, second, where does it fit into our current understanding.
I tend to try and neatly catagorize weapons and give them names that, even if not strictly accurate, allow me to differentiate between forms. Mark is correct: probably the best name for the eBay example is "Kachin sword". But without more information from someone in the region, we're left to our own devices. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
|
![]()
Mark
The bottom of the scabbard is busted up pretty bad I don't think they are mismatched just broken. Lew |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 520
|
![]()
Mark or Andrew, what is the phoenetic for dha. Could it be that it could sound like dao to someone who was raised speaking English. I was just thinking how this could be like the whole Tulwar/Talwar ; Pedang/Peudeung things
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,781
|
![]()
I think RhysMicheal may well be right about the same name heard in different dialects add to confusion. One thing I know for sure I have always found a simple pleasure playing with my Dao Dha.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]()
Thank you to all of you gentlemen!!!
![]() Mark, i think that Lew is right, the scabbard seems broken but i will post better pictures when it's arrived (hope soon ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
John:
I don't think dah/dha and dao would be readily confused phoetically. Dha is pronounced like a short "ah" with a "d" in front of it, whereas dao is pronounced is pronounced like the "bough" of a tree, except with a "d" instead of a "b". Dao is of Chinese origin as far as I know, whereas Dha is Burmese -- two dissimilar languages with some overlap. Both mean sword in their respective languages. Perhaps Philip T. or Scott R. could help further on the Chinese form. The Thai version Daab/Dahb/Darb is pronounced like "garb" but with a "d" instead of a "g". Ian. Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 520
|
![]()
Thanks Ian
Thats one problem I really have is figuring out how these words are pronounced in their native language. It particularly true when its a tonal language. Everything I say comes out southern US style |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ayutthaya - Thailand - most of the time that is.
Posts: 7
|
![]()
Alrighty then, my turn.
The sort of sword or machete, or Dao or Dha (Darb as I say it) that is seen in one of the posts, with the opened sheath, is coming from Birma. To be be precise it comes from the Northwest of the country. The fabrication, style and shape is similar to the one of the Naga tribe. However, it seems that it comes from the Rawang tribe which is a minority in the Kachin group. I sourced a few of the last ones available for sale in Thailand just last week. Only problem: the price. See attached some pictures of these 2 blades, and an illustration elaborating the story/origin of the people the weapons really belong to. The illustration are found page 22-25 in: The vanishing tribes of Birma Editor - Seven Dials Writer - Richard K. Diron ISBN 1 84188 032 9 Now I trust this little pepper and salt is useful info to several of you. Serge from coZun. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Diran's book does have some helpful information, and his photos are great (not suprising, as he's a photo-journalist, I believe). |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 987
|
![]()
Good information, Serge. I've been meaning to get that book for a while, and now I'm sure I will.
![]() I wonder if the red scabbard and red handle have a special significance. It is so often, but not universally, seen. Of the two Kachin dao I have, the higher-quality one has the red scabbard. I also have an old Shan dha the scabbard and handle of of which had been painted red (fairly sloppily, sometimes painting over the silver covering). ![]() Last edited by Mark Bowditch; 1st September 2006 at 07:46 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 520
|
![]() Quote:
Mark you may have already seen this but in ANCIENT SOUTH-EAST ASIAN WARFARE By H. G. QUARITCH WALES. Ph.D. Litt.D. LONDON BERNARD QUARITCH, LTD. 1952 He states in CHAPTER VI SIAM AND BURMA: THE PREPARATIONS "Lastly I may mention an interesting point of magical symbolism to which Professor Heine-Geldern has drawn my attention: Karl Dohring states, on the authority of La Loubere (op. cit., p. 26), that Siamese soldiers formerly wore red, the colour of the warlike planet Mars which presided over the south, and that is why military officials were on the right (south) side of the king in audience" I know nothing about the astrology of Siam so I cannot tell you if anyone else confirms what he wrote or not. This author however has several books on Siam including Towards Angkor in the footsteps of the Indian invaders / by H.G. Quaritch Wales ; with a foreword by Sir FrancisYounghusband and London : G.G. Harrap & Co., Ltd., [1937 and Ancient Siamese government and administration not sure of the original publisher but Paragon Book Reprint Corp (January 1, 1965) Last edited by RhysMichael; 20th August 2006 at 01:49 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 987
|
![]()
John,
I haven't seen any of those books, though Quarich Wales sounds very familiar. I've probably seen him cited somewhere. More books for my reading list. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]()
And finally the dha is here in my hands
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|