keris Lombok

[Mamat Lombok]

Dear all ,

Here i want to share some pic's of lombok kerisses.
both of them are in original warangka and hilt.
each blade is in very good condition,also the warangka and hilts.
balde length for Luk 9 : 48 centimeters.
warangka : old timoho wood
hilt : old timoho

straight blade length : 53 centimeters
warangka : old purnama sada wood
hilt :timoho wood
pamor : Aik Ngelek (banyu Mili )

thanks for watching.
regards,

mamat.

[Mamat Lombok]

Originally Posted by Mamat Lombok

Dear all ,

Here i want to share some pic's of lombok kerisses.
both of them are in original warangka and hilt.
each blade is in very good condition,also the warangka and hilts.
balde length for Luk 9 : 48 centimeters.
warangka : old timoho wood
hilt : old timoho

straight blade length : 53 centimeters
warangka : old purnama sada wood
hilt :timoho wood
pamor : Aik Ngelek (banyu Mili )

thanks for watching.
regards,

mamat.

another pic's of them

[David]

I always find it a shame when i see these Bali-style sheaths with the pendoks stripped off them like in your first example.

[GIO]

Dear friends,
Please apologize my ignorance, but I would have identified such keris as Balinese. What are the features which allow to distinguish Lombok from Bali keris ?
Thanks in advance

[Rick]

Dear Mamat,

You have posted these kerises with painstaking descriptions and measurements .

You did not ask for comments or have any questions; in fact the original post seemed more like an advertisement (in my opinion) than an opening for discussion .

Can you please clarify ??

[David]

Originally Posted by GIO

Dear friends,
Please apologize my ignorance, but I would have identified such keris as Balinese. What are the features which allow to distinguish Lombok from Bali keris ?
Thanks in advance

That's a good question Gio. For many years Lombok was under Balinese rule and as such keris from the region have a very similar appearance in terms of style and dress. There are therefore times when it is pretty impossible to tell the difference barring provenance. Also many blades actually made in Bali could end up in Lombak as i believe there were far more blade producing centers in Bali.
From what i have been able to determine though, there are some features than can lead us to conclude a blade is from Lombok. Often when we see Bali-style blades with unusual (for Bali) dhapurs and pamor patterns they can well be from Lombok. I don't suppose that this excludes a more commonly recognized Bali form from also being made in Lombok, but it's harder to be sure. Also it is my understanding that the fine Bali polish was not always applied to blades in Lombok, so when the surface has a rougher finish sometimes that can be a clue to the origin of the keris. But it could also mean that it is a Bali blade that was washed outside of Bali (or a new Madura blade that is been aged and is being passed off as old ).
So from what i know (or think i know ) this first keris shows some signs of Lombok origin to me, while the second keris looks pure Balinese in style and form. That does not preclude the possibilty that it might be from Lombok, i just don't see any indicators that can verify that. Perhaps others can.
BTW Mamat, the way you have presented these here seems more like an enticement to sale than it does an opening to a informational thread about the nature of keris. I hope that is not the case. You don't seem to be posing any question in regards to them. Is there something you hope to learn about these or something you wish to inform us about them? Do you have any provenance to their origins? The walikat sheath in the second keris appears to be rather recent, no? You have not presented any photos of the full length of these blades which is indispensable in any discussion we could have on them based solely of photographic presentation. Perhaps you could upload some.

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

Dear Mamat,

You have posted these kerises with painstaking descriptions and measurements .

You did not ask for comments or have any questions; in fact the original post seemed more like an advertisement (in my opinion) than an opening for discussion .

Can you please clarify ??

Ah Rick, i see that as usual great minds think alike.
Yes Mamat, please clarify.

[GIO]

Thanks David. Interesting remarks.

[Mamat Lombok]

dear all ,

thank you for the respons...
i post the pic's and also little description of the kerisses (blade) and the material of the sheaths cause i really wanna share to the forum.especially about LOMBOK KERISSES.
however lombok kerisses are influence by balinesse...but if we look at the sheath (TULANG PAOK /lombok) ,we will see the diferences between LOMBOK and Balinesse (BATUN POH).
and the KOJONGAN sheath ; i believe (at least as far as i know),we only can find it in lombok.
i am so sorry about my english.

[Rick]

Thanks for clearing that up Mamat .

[Mamat Lombok]

Originally Posted by Rick

Thanks for clearing that up Mamat .

Hi Rick ,
actually i really want to give the explanation about the keris (LOMBOK).
but it's very hard for me to do that in english.
thank you.

[guwaya]

however lombok kerisses are influence by balinesse...but if we look at the sheath (TULANG PAOK /lombok) ,we will see the diferences between LOMBOK and Balinesse (BATUN POH).
and the KOJONGAN sheath ; i believe (at least as far as i know),we only can find it in lombok.
i am so sorry about my english.[/QUOTE]


Hello,

After my knowledge and my experience I think there are no real Lombok keris. 20 years ago when keris where offered to me at Lombok it was always in the western region where the Balinese communities are. Looking to the blade and without having any sheath or hilt I would not be berani to decide if it is a Balinese blade or if it is a Lombok blade (whatever this might be).

The polishing or not polishing of a blade doesn't say anything nowadays about the origin. As already remarked old blades from the Balinese comunity on Lombok are newly washed and possibly not polished again. The newly made blades nowadays - mostly by Madurese people - are most often polished.

To take the sheath or the hilt as an indication for attributing a keris to Bali or Lombok in my eyes is not a serious way as these attributions can be changed easily and are changed whenever wanted.

In my eyes the lots of "Lombok keris" on the market now is a dealers' concept same to the lots of Sumbawa keris.

If I stepped on someone's feet here with my short statement I apologize for that in advance but this is the way I see the situation.

[David]

Originally Posted by guwaya

The newly made blades nowadays - mostly by Madurese people - are most often polished.

This is true, but from my experience they don't do it correctly and it is usually pretty easy to tell the difference.

Originally Posted by guwaya

In my eyes the lots of "Lombok keris" on the market now is a dealers' concept same to the lots of Sumbawa keris.

I can understand your feeling on this, but i have seen enough keris blades that are obviously related to the Bali "family" of keris that just don't fit into the Bali "pakem" that i feel it is more than likely that there are indeed keris of Lombok origin that have their own small differences.
I certainly agree that the manner of dress can never assure the origin of a blade.
Are you suggesting that there was never any keris forging centers in Lombok or that those centers if they did exist were only in Balinese communities existing in Lombok?

[guwaya]

Originally Posted by David

This is true, but from my experience they don't do it correctly and it is usually pretty easy to tell the difference.

I can understand your feeling on this, but i have seen enough keris blades that are obviously related to the Bali "family" of keris that just don't fit into the Bali "pakem" that i feel it is more than likely that there are indeed keris of Lombok origin that have their own small differences.
I certainly agree that the manner of dress can never assure the origin of a blade.
Are you suggesting that there was never any keris forging centers in Lombok or that those centers if they did exist were only in Balinese communities existing in Lombok?

"This is true, but from my experience they don't do it correctly and it is usually pretty easy to tell the difference."


I agree with you as it is also with many newly made ones from Balinese people as they are working with a flex now to make the greneng and do the polishing.


"Are you suggesting that there was never any keris forging centers in Lombok or that those centers if they did exist were only in Balinese communities existing in Lombok?"


This is my assumption mostly based on the arabic derivation of the Sasak, but I have no proof for it - just an assumption. For any further going explanations I would be thankful.