Interesting Tenegre

drac2k · 6th August 2021, 08:40 PM

I just got this interesting tenegre.The sword measures approx. 25" long and there is a space between the tang and the handle that may have once had a guard that is now missing. The blade has a brass(?), insert that I don't know why it would be there unless it was for strength reinforcement or some talismanic effect.
It has a nice scabbard, with a leather top, & either horn or tortoiseshell wraps on the sheath.

xasterix · 7th August 2021, 11:34 PM

Really nice PH weaps. Congrats on your acquisitions.

drac2k · 8th August 2021, 06:47 AM

Thanks!

Ian · 8th August 2021, 08:44 AM

drac,

Your latest acquisition is a nice sword. It appears to have a mono-steel blade with a quench-hardened edge. The scabbard is a fairly old design, and the plates are likely to be horn rather than tortoiseshell. All up, I would say this ensemble is early 20th C (1910-1930), based mainly on the scabbard.

BTW, the large knife at the bottom of your first picture, the one with the leather sheath, is an Ilokano knife from northern Luzon.

Ian

drac2k · 8th August 2021, 07:42 PM

Thanks for the info Ian; what is your opinion as to the brass insert?

Ian · 9th August 2021, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Thanks for the info Ian; what is your opinion as to the brass insert?

I don't know of any particular significance for the brass inlay. In the absence of other information, I'd say it is a decorative feature, but others more familiar with local customs may know more about the use of copper on such blades. Perhaps one of our Filipino members can comment further.

Battara · 9th August 2021, 05:59 AM

I thought it was more talismanic.

Sajen · 9th August 2021, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

The scabbard is a fairly old design, and the plates are likely to be horn rather than tortoiseshell. All up, I would say this ensemble is early 20th C (1910-1930), based mainly on the scabbard.

Agree with Ian that it is horn instead of tortoiseshell.

But my age guess is different, I guess end of the 19th century. See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=tenegre

Very nice tenegre btw.

Regards,
Detlef

drac2k · 9th August 2021, 07:27 PM

Thanks, Sajen; the scabbards do like very much alike.

Ian · 10th August 2021, 05:56 AM

Hi Detlef,

I agree that the style of scabbard looks similar and is of an older form. However, it was my understanding that the use of leather around the throat of the scabbard was a feature introduced in the very early 20th C, and the horn "scales" a little later. That's why I dated it as shown. You may be right that it is a bit older, but I doubt much before 1900.

Ian

Sajen · 10th August 2021, 03:28 PM

Hi Ian,
The horn sheet binding at scabbards I know only from fairly old examples and never have seen it by later examples. Since there are not so many dated examples around we can't be sure either.

Regards,
Detlef

xasterix · 12th August 2021, 12:01 AM

Hi everyone. Regarding the style of scabbard with that particular sheet binding, there's a provenanced tenegre picked up by Austrian explorers on an 1857-59 expedition that has a similar motif. Here's the description from the database-website "Mapping Philippine Culture," the sample itself is located in the Vienna Museum of Ethnology:

This sanduko bolo was obtained in Luzon but is typical for the island Panay. It features an elaborately carved and silver coated pommel, representing a demonic head - probably a naga or the mythical creature bakunawa. The blade has its center of gravity towards the tip, thus enabling to gain momentum for hacking and chopping cuts. (Oliver Moiseanu 2009: 63)

Here's the provenance:

The Austrian navy carried out its first major scientific mission with the frigate “Novara,” circumnavigating the globe within two years and three months (between April 30, 1857, and August 30, 1859). The crew returned with collections of botanical, geological, zoological, and cultural materials. This sanduko bolo was obtained in Luzon but is typical for the island Panay. It is among the few ethnological objects the “Novara” team collected in the Philippine Archipelago.

drac2k · 12th August 2021, 06:04 AM

Great information, thanks.

Sajen · 12th August 2021, 10:54 AM

Hi Xas,

Indeed a great information! And the scabbard is covered in horn and has a leather throat!

And it's very similar to the one in discussion. So it can be from 1850 until 1900.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 12th August 2021, 03:00 PM

Hi Xas,

I followed up on your reference and found pictures of the sword and scabbard. However, I could find no mention of the horn plates and the picture is not clear enough (at least for me) to see whether there are any plates present on the scabbard.

The information I had about dating leather throat coverings and horn plates came from Federico Malabago on the old UBB Forum, now unfortunately defunct.

Ian.

Bangkaya · 21st September 2021, 02:06 AM

The brass insert is for aswangs. They still believe in aswangs on the island of Panay today. Usually, the whole blade is made of brass or copper, but on longer blades a piece of copper/brass is incorporated into the blades since brass/copper is too soft and will not hold an edge.

Bangkaya · 21st September 2021, 03:06 AM

Here's an Ilonggo plamenko with an all brass/copper blade. Its sole purpose is to be used on aswang.

drac2k · 21st September 2021, 03:28 PM

Thanks, Bangkaya.Good to know that I have a sword to battle man or aswang !

Battara · 22nd September 2021, 02:51 AM

First it's great to see you back Bangkaya!

Second, it's great to know now one of the uses of brass or copper on weaponry - aswangs.

6th August 2021, 08:40 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Interesting Tenegre I just got this interesting tenegre.The sword measures approx. 25" long and there is a space between the tang and the handle that may have once had a guard that is now missing. The blade has a brass(?), insert that I don't know why it would be there unless it was for strength reinforcement or some talismanic effect. It has a nice scabbard, with a leather top, & either horn or tortoiseshell wraps on the sheath. Attached Images

12th August 2021, 12:01 AM	#12
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 653	Hi everyone. Regarding the style of scabbard with that particular sheet binding, there's a provenanced tenegre picked up by Austrian explorers on an 1857-59 expedition that has a similar motif. Here's the description from the database-website "Mapping Philippine Culture," the sample itself is located in the Vienna Museum of Ethnology: This sanduko bolo was obtained in Luzon but is typical for the island Panay. It features an elaborately carved and silver coated pommel, representing a demonic head - probably a naga or the mythical creature bakunawa. The blade has its center of gravity towards the tip, thus enabling to gain momentum for hacking and chopping cuts. (Oliver Moiseanu 2009: 63) Here's the provenance: The Austrian navy carried out its first major scientific mission with the frigate “Novara,” circumnavigating the globe within two years and three months (between April 30, 1857, and August 30, 1859). The crew returned with collections of botanical, geological, zoological, and cultural materials. This sanduko bolo was obtained in Luzon but is typical for the island Panay. It is among the few ethnological objects the “Novara” team collected in the Philippine Archipelago. Attached Images Last edited by xasterix; 12th August 2021 at 01:51 AM.

21st September 2021, 03:06 AM	#17
Bangkaya Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 38	Here's an Ilonggo plamenko with an all brass/copper blade. Its sole purpose is to be used on aswang. Attached Images

7th August 2021, 11:34 PM	#2
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 653	Really nice PH weaps. Congrats on your acquisitions.

8th August 2021, 06:47 AM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Thanks!

8th August 2021, 08:44 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	drac, Your latest acquisition is a nice sword. It appears to have a mono-steel blade with a quench-hardened edge. The scabbard is a fairly old design, and the plates are likely to be horn rather than tortoiseshell. All up, I would say this ensemble is early 20th C (1910-1930), based mainly on the scabbard. BTW, the large knife at the bottom of your first picture, the one with the leather sheath, is an Ilokano knife from northern Luzon. Ian

8th August 2021, 07:42 PM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Thanks for the info Ian; what is your opinion as to the brass insert?

9th August 2021, 05:59 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I thought it was more talismanic.

9th August 2021, 07:27 PM	#9
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Thanks, Sajen; the scabbards do like very much alike.

10th August 2021, 05:56 AM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Hi Detlef, I agree that the style of scabbard looks similar and is of an older form. However, it was my understanding that the use of leather around the throat of the scabbard was a feature introduced in the very early 20th C, and the horn "scales" a little later. That's why I dated it as shown. You may be right that it is a bit older, but I doubt much before 1900. Ian

10th August 2021, 03:28 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,772	Hi Ian, The horn sheet binding at scabbards I know only from fairly old examples and never have seen it by later examples. Since there are not so many dated examples around we can't be sure either. Regards, Detlef

12th August 2021, 06:04 AM	#13
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Great information, thanks.

12th August 2021, 10:54 AM	#14
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,772	Hi Xas, Indeed a great information! And the scabbard is covered in horn and has a leather throat! And it's very similar to the one in discussion. So it can be from 1850 until 1900. Regards, Detlef

12th August 2021, 03:00 PM	#15
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Hi Xas, I followed up on your reference and found pictures of the sword and scabbard. However, I could find no mention of the horn plates and the picture is not clear enough (at least for me) to see whether there are any plates present on the scabbard. The information I had about dating leather throat coverings and horn plates came from Federico Malabago on the old UBB Forum, now unfortunately defunct. Ian.

21st September 2021, 02:06 AM	#16
Bangkaya Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 38	The brass insert is for aswangs. They still believe in aswangs on the island of Panay today. Usually, the whole blade is made of brass or copper, but on longer blades a piece of copper/brass is incorporated into the blades since brass/copper is too soft and will not hold an edge.

21st September 2021, 03:28 PM	#18
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Thanks, Bangkaya.Good to know that I have a sword to battle man or aswang !

22nd September 2021, 02:51 AM	#19
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	First it's great to see you back Bangkaya! Second, it's great to know now one of the uses of brass or copper on weaponry - aswangs.