Pirate pistol-Arrh!

M ELEY · 27th April 2015, 11:23 PM

Here is a so called Mediterrainian flintlock pistol, possibly French, but more likely Turkish? The decoration on it, while rudimentary, is still quite impressive. The brass furniture is likewise well done. I was quite surprised how long this gun was when I purchased it! It has the design of having a ramrod, but it is just a decoration!

Questions-
Period? 1780's-1800?
French, Turk, Algerian or-??
Markings/designs meaning-?
Why did some pieces like this lack a ramrod? Naval use?

David R · 28th April 2015, 09:36 AM

Probably French or Italian made for the Turkish or North African market. The ramrod would have been worn round the neck on a lanyard in the common practice of the area. Look up "Suma" . This photo taken from here... Oriental-Arms.co.il

Kubur · 28th April 2015, 10:30 AM

YES!
But the screw of the cock/hammer is not original.
Looks like a screw from a Moroccan miquelet lock...

M ELEY · 28th April 2015, 08:00 PM

Thank you< David and Kubur, for your comments on this pistol. I always suspected that the rather oversized screw was from a corsair-type pistol. Well, being that this gun was made for export to said ports, it possibly was used, if incorrectly, with the pistol. David, thanks for the 'Suma' nod. I'll check it out!

rickystl · 30th April 2015, 04:28 PM

Hi Eley. You have what is commonly known as a Turkish/Ottoman Kubar Pistol. And typical of the style. I would say early to mid 19th Century. The lock and barrel on yours looks like they were locally made. Although there were also locks, barrels, and complete guns that were European made, decorated for local tastes, and exported. But these are some what rare today. As David mentioned, it was preferred to use a separate loading/cleaning rod with these pistols, suspended with a throng around the neck or tucked in the sash. Here is another pic of an original Suma rod. These pistols all have what is commonly called a "false ramrod". They have either a short, thin piece of wood rod, or like yours, a carving on the stock, to give the impression of a ramrod. It is still a mystery why they even bothered to do this. In any case, it was simply a styling exercise. The engravings on the locks, barrels, trigger guards, etc. are usually done in a generic fashion, with simple religious symbols. That might be to offer appeal to a broad spectrum of prospective customers. Overall, many of the styling features of these pistols some what copy the early French style of pistols.
Throughout a 200+ year period there must have been thousands of these pistols made. All one at a time. There is always one or more for sale at the Internet sale/auction sites. And the amazing thing is, unless made as a pair, I've never seen two exactly alike. Very similar, but not identical. Hope this helps. Rick. In the near future, I'll post two of these pistols that were restored to firing condition.

rickystl · 30th April 2015, 04:30 PM

Oppsss......forgot the pic.

M ELEY · 1st May 2015, 02:06 AM

Hello Rick and thank you for your indepth response. I'm actually glad we can clearly pin it down to Turkish, as it still fits the mold for my pirate collection. Looking forward to seeing your guns!
Mark

27th April 2015, 11:23 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Pirate pistol-Arrh! Here is a so called Mediterrainian flintlock pistol, possibly French, but more likely Turkish? The decoration on it, while rudimentary, is still quite impressive. The brass furniture is likewise well done. I was quite surprised how long this gun was when I purchased it! It has the design of having a ramrod, but it is just a decoration! Questions- Period? 1780's-1800? French, Turk, Algerian or-?? Markings/designs meaning-? Why did some pieces like this lack a ramrod? Naval use? Attached Images Last edited by David; 28th April 2015 at 02:32 AM. Reason: You can't place plugs for your book on the forum...sorry... :-)

28th April 2015, 09:36 AM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Probably French or Italian made for the Turkish or North African market. The ramrod would have been worn round the neck on a lanyard in the common practice of the area. Look up "Suma" . This photo taken from here... Oriental-Arms.co.il Attached Images

30th April 2015, 04:30 PM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Oppsss......forgot the pic. Attached Images

28th April 2015, 10:30 AM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	YES! But the screw of the cock/hammer is not original. Looks like a screw from a Moroccan miquelet lock...

28th April 2015, 08:00 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Thank you< David and Kubur, for your comments on this pistol. I always suspected that the rather oversized screw was from a corsair-type pistol. Well, being that this gun was made for export to said ports, it possibly was used, if incorrectly, with the pistol. David, thanks for the 'Suma' nod. I'll check it out!

30th April 2015, 04:28 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Eley. You have what is commonly known as a Turkish/Ottoman Kubar Pistol. And typical of the style. I would say early to mid 19th Century. The lock and barrel on yours looks like they were locally made. Although there were also locks, barrels, and complete guns that were European made, decorated for local tastes, and exported. But these are some what rare today. As David mentioned, it was preferred to use a separate loading/cleaning rod with these pistols, suspended with a throng around the neck or tucked in the sash. Here is another pic of an original Suma rod. These pistols all have what is commonly called a "false ramrod". They have either a short, thin piece of wood rod, or like yours, a carving on the stock, to give the impression of a ramrod. It is still a mystery why they even bothered to do this. In any case, it was simply a styling exercise. The engravings on the locks, barrels, trigger guards, etc. are usually done in a generic fashion, with simple religious symbols. That might be to offer appeal to a broad spectrum of prospective customers. Overall, many of the styling features of these pistols some what copy the early French style of pistols. Throughout a 200+ year period there must have been thousands of these pistols made. All one at a time. There is always one or more for sale at the Internet sale/auction sites. And the amazing thing is, unless made as a pair, I've never seen two exactly alike. Very similar, but not identical. Hope this helps. Rick. In the near future, I'll post two of these pistols that were restored to firing condition.

1st May 2015, 02:06 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Hello Rick and thank you for your indepth response. I'm actually glad we can clearly pin it down to Turkish, as it still fits the mold for my pirate collection. Looking forward to seeing your guns! Mark