WWI US Naval Chief's Knives

Ian · Today, 01:45 AM

I'm not sure whether this topic is better placed here or in the Miscellaneous Forum. Since it is WWI era, and that is usually the cut off for items here, I've put it here.

This lot finished today. Here is the auctioneer's description: "Lot of 2 WW I American US Navy Battleship Chief's Long & Short Knives. Knife 1 Total length: 32 1/2", Blade length: 27 3/4", Knife 2 Total length: 14", Blade length: 9 1/2"." I was not the successful bidder, but thought they looked odd and worth a small bid.

These both look like something made in a large ship's machine shop. I'm wondering if anyone has seen similar items attributed to a Naval Chief. I assume "Chief" refers to Chief Petty Officer. Thoughts about what these may have been used for are very welcome.
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CutlassCollector · Today, 12:54 PM

Hard to imagine what these would be used for and they look more like tools rather than weapons.
A large warship even in WW1 would have been equipped with its own cutlasses, and other small arms including rifles and bayonets.

Large ships with hundreds of crew members would have frozen meat storage facilities so I'm thinking these are butcher's knives for cutting up carcasses and large cuts of meat. Chef not chief perhaps?

Ian · Today, 02:19 PM

Hi CC. The idea of cooking knives occurred to me also. The USN does not have "chefs," but cooks for sure.

The hilts are similar on these two and and a bit unusual.

Jim McDougall · Today, 05:41 PM

These items of weapons curiosa(?) are interesting miscellania of course, and while militaria in classification do bring up warfare perspectives. They obviously exceed the period timelines normally discussed here, which ideally observe a terminus ante quem of c. 1900. However with actual weapons as far as patterns and forms these often had working lives extending beyond arbitrary time lines in discussions. Even tools like this might be called into action at any time and likely the same guidelines happened with them, in use over long periods.

While cooks etc. were not part of battle order typically in campaigns (or on ships of course), it was often impossible not to somehow become engaged in many situations.
In one case for example in the Crimean war at Balaklava, a butcher with the regiments, overcome with the excitement, grabbed a huge sword and a horse and rode into action with one of the units. Not sure if he would have done so if only armed with a knife like this, but the point is that even cooks (or butchers) could be combative.

Following the humor of cooks vs. chefs, I think of the movie "Up Periscope" (Kelsey Grammar) and the galley in the vintage submarine, where the cook, aghast, finds canned goods...from the Korean War!!!

... the notion of 'cuisine' uh.........pretty far off.

As far as these knives in the weapon genre, perhaps hunting swords and knives and their companion items are not too far away from these.

Today, 01:45 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	WWI US Naval Chief's Knives I'm not sure whether this topic is better placed here or in the Miscellaneous Forum. Since it is WWI era, and that is usually the cut off for items here, I've put it here. This lot finished today. Here is the auctioneer's description: "Lot of 2 WW I American US Navy Battleship Chief's Long & Short Knives. Knife 1 Total length: 32 1/2", Blade length: 27 3/4", Knife 2 Total length: 14", Blade length: 9 1/2"." I was not the successful bidder, but thought they looked odd and worth a small bid. These both look like something made in a large ship's machine shop. I'm wondering if anyone has seen similar items attributed to a Naval Chief. I assume "Chief" refers to Chief Petty Officer. Thoughts about what these may have been used for are very welcome. . Attached Images

Today, 12:54 PM	#2
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 331	Hard to imagine what these would be used for and they look more like tools rather than weapons. A large warship even in WW1 would have been equipped with its own cutlasses, and other small arms including rifles and bayonets. Large ships with hundreds of crew members would have frozen meat storage facilities so I'm thinking these are butcher's knives for cutting up carcasses and large cuts of meat. Chef not chief perhaps?

Today, 02:19 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	Hi CC. The idea of cooking knives occurred to me also. The USN does not have "chefs," but cooks for sure. The hilts are similar on these two and and a bit unusual.

Today, 05:41 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,956	These items of weapons curiosa(?) are interesting miscellania of course, and while militaria in classification do bring up warfare perspectives. They obviously exceed the period timelines normally discussed here, which ideally observe a terminus ante quem of c. 1900. However with actual weapons as far as patterns and forms these often had working lives extending beyond arbitrary time lines in discussions. Even tools like this might be called into action at any time and likely the same guidelines happened with them, in use over long periods. While cooks etc. were not part of battle order typically in campaigns (or on ships of course), it was often impossible not to somehow become engaged in many situations. In one case for example in the Crimean war at Balaklava, a butcher with the regiments, overcome with the excitement, grabbed a huge sword and a horse and rode into action with one of the units. Not sure if he would have done so if only armed with a knife like this, but the point is that even cooks (or butchers) could be combative. Following the humor of cooks vs. chefs, I think of the movie "Up Periscope" (Kelsey Grammar) and the galley in the vintage submarine, where the cook, aghast, finds canned goods...from the Korean War!!! ... the notion of 'cuisine' uh.........pretty far off. As far as these knives in the weapon genre, perhaps hunting swords and knives and their companion items are not too far away from these.