Translation assistance on Indian sword- Sanskrit(?)

RSWORD · 5th January 2010, 02:18 PM

Indian sword with gold koftgari hilt. Has a nice inscription on the underside of the pommel and I believe there may be a date but haven't been able to get a full and complete translation. Can anyone make out sanskrit?

RSWORD · 5th January 2010, 02:19 PM

Here are some additional pics including better close up shots of the inscription and a shot of the top of the pommel which is rather attractive.

bhushan_lawate · 6th January 2010, 11:25 AM

Hey,

the first couple of snaps of the hilt show the wordings upside down.

Could you please post them again.

The last couple of snaps enabled me to read "Sanvat 1854" meaning the year 1854 according to the Hindu Calendar...

Hope this helps.

Awaiting better snaps ...!!

regards,
Bhushan

Jens Nordlunde · 6th January 2010, 01:48 PM

Hi Rick,
Here is some reading about Vikram Samvat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikram_Samwat
So you tulwar seems to be from 1797-98. The rest of the translation could be very interesting. Nice tulwar you got yourself, was it a Christmas present from yourself

?
Jens

RSWORD · 6th January 2010, 02:14 PM

Bhusan,

Thank you for the date translation! I have rotated the view of the inscription from the first two pictures. Hopefully this will help in the reading of the rest of the inscription.

RSWORD · 6th January 2010, 02:17 PM

Hi Jens,

Thank you for the link with information about this calendar. I agree that the rest of translation may prove quite interesting and I look forward to it. It is a nice old tulwar with a heavy wootz fighting blade, original scabbard and interesting inscription and handle. I have had it for quite a few months now so maybe a bit early for a Christmas present but maybe just in time for my birthday!

Emanuel · 6th January 2010, 06:17 PM

Hi Rick,

Gorgeous tulwar! If the koftgari and date inscription are original, then this would nicely date this particular type of hilt to at least the late 18th century.

Did anything worthy of commemoration happen in India in 1798? All I can think of is the fall of Tipu Sultan

Furthermore, where in India would classical Sankrit still be used by the 19th century?

Regards,
Emanuel

bhushan_lawate · 7th January 2010, 05:16 AM

Hi,

Was able to get a part of the incription on the other side.

it reads "Cho La Dar Na Tha Ji Tra Kha Ri(??)"

Which is more like someones name.

Could we have better snaps of the part just under the quillions???? as the koftgari there looks lil blurred.

Also, it was pretty common in India to have religious incriptions or names of makers/owners inscribed on weapons and the language used was Sanskrit/Hindi/Urdu etc.

The script used for Sanskrit/Hindi/Marathi languages is the same - Devanagari..

This does not necessarily mean anything towards sanskrit was in vogue or not.

Also for a faily long time the Vikram Samvat and Shalivahan Shaka are the calendars used in India. Even to date the Hindu religious/culturals festivities are based and celebrated on these calendars.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Bhushan

RSWORD · 8th January 2010, 03:45 AM

Bhusan,

You have been very helpful. Thank you! We are getting closer to a translation! I will be happy to provide some better pictures and will do so in the next day or two.

RSWORD · 9th January 2010, 03:10 PM

Ok. I think I got the best pictures I possibly can to clearly show all the words. Sorry it is not at an ideal angle but hopefully the full inscription can be made out and we can learn more about this. Thanks again Bhusan for your translation assistance!

RSWORD · 12th January 2010, 02:26 AM

bump

Battara · 12th January 2010, 03:11 AM

Very nice puppy (woof!) and I like the quality of koftgari....

bhushan_lawate · 12th January 2010, 06:00 AM

Hi,

Have been working on this however yet to decipher it completely.

This is what I have as of now. (Could be a few letters need to be interpreted differently)

As the script has undergone series of changes in the way characters were represented. Need to dig into references. Will do that over the weekend.

Sam va ta 1 8 5 4(??) Tra(??) Da Va Su D 7 So No(??/Vo) Da(??/Cho) Ma Nu -- -- Cho La D Ra Na Tha Ji Tra Kha Ri(??)
Which cane be read as:
Samvat 1854 Trada ----------------------- Choladra Nathji Tra Khari

In all probabilities this signifies an important date and the name of the owner/deity.

Thanks,
Bhushan Lawate

caveman · 13th January 2010, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhushan_lawate

Hi,

Have been working on this however yet to decipher it completely.

This is what I have as of now. (Could be a few letters need to be interpreted differently)

As the script has undergone series of changes in the way characters were represented. Need to dig into references. Will do that over the weekend.

Sam va ta 1 8 5 4(??) Tra(??) Da Va Su D 7 So No(??/Vo) Da(??/Cho) Ma Nu -- -- Cho La D Ra Na Tha Ji Tra Kha Ri(??)
Which cane be read as:
Samvat 1854 Trada ----------------------- Choladra Nathji Tra Khari

In all probabilities this signifies an important date and the name of the owner/deity.

Thanks,
Bhushan Lawate

lovely tulwar!!!! good catch

RSWORD · 13th January 2010, 09:41 AM

Bhusan,

Thank you for your efforts in translating. It shall be fun researching the information you have provided and any additional translations you are able to provide from your research.

5th January 2010, 02:18 PM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Translation assistance on Indian sword- Sanskrit(?) Indian sword with gold koftgari hilt. Has a nice inscription on the underside of the pommel and I believe there may be a date but haven't been able to get a full and complete translation. Can anyone make out sanskrit? Attached Images

5th January 2010, 02:19 PM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Here are some additional pics including better close up shots of the inscription and a shot of the top of the pommel which is rather attractive. Attached Images

6th January 2010, 02:14 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Bhusan, Thank you for the date translation! I have rotated the view of the inscription from the first two pictures. Hopefully this will help in the reading of the rest of the inscription. Attached Images

9th January 2010, 03:10 PM	#10
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Ok. I think I got the best pictures I possibly can to clearly show all the words. Sorry it is not at an ideal angle but hopefully the full inscription can be made out and we can learn more about this. Thanks again Bhusan for your translation assistance! Attached Images

6th January 2010, 11:25 AM	#3
bhushan_lawate Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: India Posts: 77	Hey, the first couple of snaps of the hilt show the wordings upside down. Could you please post them again. The last couple of snaps enabled me to read "Sanvat 1854" meaning the year 1854 according to the Hindu Calendar... Hope this helps. Awaiting better snaps ...!! regards, Bhushan

6th January 2010, 01:48 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Rick, Here is some reading about Vikram Samvat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikram_Samwat So you tulwar seems to be from 1797-98. The rest of the translation could be very interesting. Nice tulwar you got yourself, was it a Christmas present from yourself ? Jens

6th January 2010, 02:17 PM	#6
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Hi Jens, Thank you for the link with information about this calendar. I agree that the rest of translation may prove quite interesting and I look forward to it. It is a nice old tulwar with a heavy wootz fighting blade, original scabbard and interesting inscription and handle. I have had it for quite a few months now so maybe a bit early for a Christmas present but maybe just in time for my birthday!

6th January 2010, 06:17 PM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Rick, Gorgeous tulwar! If the koftgari and date inscription are original, then this would nicely date this particular type of hilt to at least the late 18th century. Did anything worthy of commemoration happen in India in 1798? All I can think of is the fall of Tipu Sultan Furthermore, where in India would classical Sankrit still be used by the 19th century? Regards, Emanuel

7th January 2010, 05:16 AM	#8
bhushan_lawate Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: India Posts: 77	Hi, Was able to get a part of the incription on the other side. it reads "Cho La Dar Na Tha Ji Tra Kha Ri(??)" Which is more like someones name. Could we have better snaps of the part just under the quillions???? as the koftgari there looks lil blurred. Also, it was pretty common in India to have religious incriptions or names of makers/owners inscribed on weapons and the language used was Sanskrit/Hindi/Urdu etc. The script used for Sanskrit/Hindi/Marathi languages is the same - Devanagari.. This does not necessarily mean anything towards sanskrit was in vogue or not. Also for a faily long time the Vikram Samvat and Shalivahan Shaka are the calendars used in India. Even to date the Hindu religious/culturals festivities are based and celebrated on these calendars. Hope this helps. Regards, Bhushan

8th January 2010, 03:45 AM	#9
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Bhusan, You have been very helpful. Thank you! We are getting closer to a translation! I will be happy to provide some better pictures and will do so in the next day or two.

12th January 2010, 02:26 AM	#11
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	bump

12th January 2010, 03:11 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Very nice puppy (woof!) and I like the quality of koftgari....

12th January 2010, 06:00 AM	#13
bhushan_lawate Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: India Posts: 77	Hi, Have been working on this however yet to decipher it completely. This is what I have as of now. (Could be a few letters need to be interpreted differently) As the script has undergone series of changes in the way characters were represented. Need to dig into references. Will do that over the weekend. Sam va ta 1 8 5 4(??) Tra(??) Da Va Su D 7 So No(??/Vo) Da(??/Cho) Ma Nu -- -- Cho La D Ra Na Tha Ji Tra Kha Ri(??) Which cane be read as: Samvat 1854 Trada ----------------------- Choladra Nathji Tra Khari In all probabilities this signifies an important date and the name of the owner/deity. Thanks, Bhushan Lawate

13th January 2010, 09:41 AM	#15
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Bhusan, Thank you for your efforts in translating. It shall be fun researching the information you have provided and any additional translations you are able to provide from your research.