Prussian Dragoon sword 1734 with iron hilt

corrado26 · 3rd April 2019, 02:48 PM

I got this absolutely rare Prussian Dragoon sword 1734 this morning. Usually issues of this sword had a brass hilt but until today only 12 pieces are known with an iron hilt. The blade shows the stilized mark of the Prussian eagle that was struck at the Potzdam factory.
corrado26

fernando · 3rd April 2019, 05:10 PM

Excelent, Udo ...
Very good finding

.

M ELEY · 3rd April 2019, 11:20 PM

An amazing sword! This beast would really cleave a man in two! Last of the 'thumb ring' models...a classic!

Jim McDougall · 6th April 2019, 10:10 PM

This truly is an exciting example of these early Prussian cavalry swords as it does seem to be a distinct variant, not only as it is iron, but the M1735 (as designated by Wagner (1967, pl. 4, p.254) has an eagle head pommel with capstan.
There is a M1732 version also brass but with rounded pommel and a solid plate in guard with crowned eagle image. This also has the POTZDAM mark and the Prussian eagle stamp other side of blade.

It is interesting that Wagner regards Potsdam as a makers mark, but it would be an arsenal type mark as this was the residence of the king. In effect it was Frederick William I, who was keen on his powerful army, referred to as 'Potsdam Giants'. In 1740 his son Frederick (also) took over as Frederick II (Frederick the Great).

It would seem that such changes may have brought variation, or perhaps the iron and without the elaborate cast brass hilts might have been for other ranks? These are shown in Bezdek (2000) p.167, as Prussian dragoon sword c. 1750. It is not indicated (line drawing) whether iron or brass.

It is interesting as well to see 'patterns' this close together, as M1732 and M1735 as shown in Wagner. It does seem that these swords did have a number of variant hilt designs with incorporated royal cyphers etc. but as noted, this would seem to be a troopers version, without these kinds of embellishments. In my view even more desirable as a sword which was really in the ranks of key events in these most historic times!

Jim McDougall · 7th April 2019, 03:54 AM

Further info I found:
Apparently the brass hilts were equally for other ranks not officers as I presumed, at least in the case of the M1732.
The Potzdam arsenal was apparently founded in 1722 as a rifle manufactory.
It is actually in Brandenburg /Berlin and swords from there later in the century were marked Berlin.

I also found that Dragoon regt. Nr.3; Grenadiers zu Pferd used dragoon swords with iron hilts. It would seem this was a limited case so this sword could very likely be from that unit.

There is a book in German I found:
" Me Fecit Potzdam: Old Prussian Edged Weapons of the 18th C"
by Bernd A, Windscheimer

corrado26 · 7th April 2019, 08:13 AM

For better understanding:
Parallel to the in 1734 introduced swords for dragoons with a brass hilt and an eagle head there has been adopted a sword with an iron hilt. These iron hilted swords were used by the dragoon-regiment n°3 (1713-1741 mounted grenadiers) and n°4. Until today only 12 of these iron hilted swords are known. The book of my friend Bernd Windsheimer "ME FECIT POTZDAM" is a very good and impressive source in order to learn interesting details concerning Prussian swords. There some more iron hilted swords M 1734 are shown and well described.
corrado26

Jim McDougall · 7th April 2019, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

For better understanding:
Parallel to the in 1734 introduced swords for dragoons with a brass hilt and an eagle head there has been adopted a sword with an iron hilt. These iron hilted swords were used by the dragoon-regiment n°3 (1713-1741 mounted grenadiers) and n°4. Until today only 12 of these iron hilted swords are known. The book of my friend Bernd Windsheimer "ME FECIT POTZDAM" is a very good and impressive source in order to learn interesting details concerning Prussian swords. There some more iron hilted swords M 1734 are shown and well described.
corrado26

Udo thank you for clarifying my efforts to add information to this very interesting sword. I always enjoy learning from these swords, and wanted to share what I had found for the benefit of our many readers. It truly adds so much more dimension to the enjoyment of seeing these weapons when knowing these kinds of details, and especially that your friends book is out there.
Frankly the information found online and even in the other known sources in English are pretty dismal, and offer very little insight into the history of Potzdam as far as swords. There is far more on the firearms production of course.
Thank you again
Jim

3rd April 2019, 02:48 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Prussian Dragoon sword 1734 with iron hilt I got this absolutely rare Prussian Dragoon sword 1734 this morning. Usually issues of this sword had a brass hilt but until today only 12 pieces are known with an iron hilt. The blade shows the stilized mark of the Prussian eagle that was struck at the Potzdam factory. corrado26 Attached Images

3rd April 2019, 05:10 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Excelent, Udo ... Very good finding .

3rd April 2019, 11:20 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,092	An amazing sword! This beast would really cleave a man in two! Last of the 'thumb ring' models...a classic!

6th April 2019, 10:10 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,941	This truly is an exciting example of these early Prussian cavalry swords as it does seem to be a distinct variant, not only as it is iron, but the M1735 (as designated by Wagner (1967, pl. 4, p.254) has an eagle head pommel with capstan. There is a M1732 version also brass but with rounded pommel and a solid plate in guard with crowned eagle image. This also has the POTZDAM mark and the Prussian eagle stamp other side of blade. It is interesting that Wagner regards Potsdam as a makers mark, but it would be an arsenal type mark as this was the residence of the king. In effect it was Frederick William I, who was keen on his powerful army, referred to as 'Potsdam Giants'. In 1740 his son Frederick (also) took over as Frederick II (Frederick the Great). It would seem that such changes may have brought variation, or perhaps the iron and without the elaborate cast brass hilts might have been for other ranks? These are shown in Bezdek (2000) p.167, as Prussian dragoon sword c. 1750. It is not indicated (line drawing) whether iron or brass. It is interesting as well to see 'patterns' this close together, as M1732 and M1735 as shown in Wagner. It does seem that these swords did have a number of variant hilt designs with incorporated royal cyphers etc. but as noted, this would seem to be a troopers version, without these kinds of embellishments. In my view even more desirable as a sword which was really in the ranks of key events in these most historic times!

7th April 2019, 03:54 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,941	Further info I found: Apparently the brass hilts were equally for other ranks not officers as I presumed, at least in the case of the M1732. The Potzdam arsenal was apparently founded in 1722 as a rifle manufactory. It is actually in Brandenburg /Berlin and swords from there later in the century were marked Berlin. I also found that Dragoon regt. Nr.3; Grenadiers zu Pferd used dragoon swords with iron hilts. It would seem this was a limited case so this sword could very likely be from that unit. There is a book in German I found: " Me Fecit Potzdam: Old Prussian Edged Weapons of the 18th C" by Bernd A, Windscheimer

7th April 2019, 08:13 AM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	For better understanding: Parallel to the in 1734 introduced swords for dragoons with a brass hilt and an eagle head there has been adopted a sword with an iron hilt. These iron hilted swords were used by the dragoon-regiment n°3 (1713-1741 mounted grenadiers) and n°4. Until today only 12 of these iron hilted swords are known. The book of my friend Bernd Windsheimer "ME FECIT POTZDAM" is a very good and impressive source in order to learn interesting details concerning Prussian swords. There some more iron hilted swords M 1734 are shown and well described. corrado26