Question regarding cleaning

[Bob A]

I just rec'd a loop dagger, ex-Waldman collection. I already owned one, which seemed free of any surface patina. The new one seems to have a black coating which tends to obscure some of the detail work. I'm tempted to clean it up a bit, but torn because I don't know whether the coating originates with the maker, or was added later. It does not look like any sort of oxidation.

Normally I prefer not to mess with the finish of an object, unless it is actively rusting.[IMG]

Comments welcomed, thank you.[IMG]

[Bob A]

So no one knows the scoop on the black goop?

[Sajen]

Hi Bob,

no, I think that every somewhat knowledged collector will know that it is just old "patinated" rust, nothing else. There are a lot Central African weapons which are partially blackened but I don't know this feature by Tiv loop daggers. The black coating by your dagger seems to my eyes just old rust.
Personally I would clean it that it look nice like your other example. Just my humble opinion, others may think different.

Regards,
Detlef

[Bob A]

Thank you for your reply, Detlef.

I'm still somewhat unsure of the nature of the surface. My experience with rust is that it is a pitting phenomenon, rather than an accretion, which seems to be what I'm seeing here.

I acknowledge the often blackened surfaces of some African blades, but I do not possess any like that, except possibly this example, so I'm not in a position to speak with any authority.

It's my understanding that there are alternating viewpoints on cleaning blades, perhaps especially African blades. Some prefer total scrub down to the bare metal; some prefer using the contrasting surfaces to heighten the drama, so to speak, of the design. Mangbetu axes fall into this category for me; I do prefer the highlighting effect of an artful partial cleaning, though I have no idea what those who originated the artifact would consider proper.

For the blade in question, I'm sure partial cleaning of the loop handle would serve to bring out the elegant pattern, but once that is done, I imagine the blade itself would need to be cleaned in its entirety - it does not seem to lend itself to "highlighting".

Is there any particular solvent that would be most useful in removing "patinated rust", should I come to a decision to do so?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Bob A

I'm still somewhat unsure of the nature of the surface. My experience with rust is that it is a pitting phenomenon, rather than an accretion, which seems to be what I'm seeing here.

I acknowledge the often blackened surfaces of some African blades, but I do not possess any like that, except possibly this example, so I'm not in a position to speak with any authority.

I am nearly sure that we see here patinated rust and not any blackened surface, it's the same on handle and blade, this is what let me be sure.

Originally Posted by Bob A

It's my understanding that there are alternating viewpoints on cleaning blades, perhaps especially African blades. Some prefer total scrub down to the bare metal; some prefer using the contrasting surfaces to heighten the drama, so to speak, of the design. Mangbetu axes fall into this category for me; I do prefer the highlighting effect of an artful partial cleaning, though I have no idea what those who originated the artifact would consider proper.

Yes, there are different viewpoints, I think special between US and European collectors. For me it's equal from where a blade coming, I prefer a clean blade. All rust is active, red is more fast as black one but oxidation is an active process. It don't need to grind it down to the bare metal, you need to find the correct way.
Look to some of my old threads and decide by self!
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=congo
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=congo
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=congo
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=congo
You see by all provided threads before and after pictures, so you can decide which state you like more. It's the same with your two loop daggers, to which one you like to look with more enjoy!?

Originally Posted by Bob A

For the blade in question, I'm sure partial cleaning of the loop handle would serve to bring out the elegant pattern, but once that is done, I imagine the blade itself would need to be cleaned in its entirety - it does not seem to lend itself to "highlighting".

Agree complete with you!

Originally Posted by Bob A

Is there any particular solvent that would be most useful in removing "patinated rust", should I come to a decision to do so?

I've used for the blades in the provided links sandpaper in different grain size with WD 40.

Regards,
Detlef

[kahnjar1]

Hi Bob,
There are no doubt many opinions as to what is the best/safest for rust removal. I have found WHITE VINEGAR (from Supermarket) to be excellent. Just soak blade until finish required is reached, and neutralise with hot water. I works quite quickly. A day or two should show marked improvement.
Stu

[Bob A]

Thanks for the cleaning suggestions.

In past, I've used Eezox with steel wool or brass brush, applying and scrubbing until the rust was removed. It is both a solvent and a rust preventive. I sometimes follow up with a coat of Renaissance Wax.

Is hot water sufficient to neutralise the acid? I worry that acid might linger in the forging flaws, making problems down the road.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Bob A

Thanks for the cleaning suggestions.

In past, I've used Eezox with steel wool or brass brush, applying and scrubbing until the rust was removed. It is both a solvent and a rust preventive. I sometimes follow up with a coat of Renaissance Wax.

Is hot water sufficient to neutralise the acid? I worry that acid might linger in the forging flaws, making problems down the road.

Hi Bob,
I have not ever had problems using water to neutralize the vinegar.
Stu

[Fernando K]

Hello

As someone suggested above, oxidation is a continuous method, there is no passive oxide. The only way to deoxidize is the electrolysis, which removes even the oxide from the wells or cavities. This method does not affect the metal of the base, only the oxide. That of acids, still weak, like vinegar, also attack in clean metal. In this forum there is a thread about cleaning, at this moment I can not find it

Affectionately

[Bob A]

A few hours in a vinegar soak, with scrubbing and baking soda slurry, followed by Eezox and stainless steel scrubber and 0000- steel wool, and this is the result. The brass or gilt in the handle grooves was a nice surprise.

[Ian]

Hi Bob:


Nice job. Shows again an unexpected detail after cleaning. Sometimes it's a nice surprise.


Ian