19th Century Omani Khanjar?

[harrywagner]

This arrived this morning and is too good not to share. I don't see them like this every day. Apparently there is no end to the Wagner luck. All comments welcome and appreciated. TIA!

Harry

[harrywagner]

A few more photos Can anyone help with the translation?

[A.alnakkas]

a nice piece! :-)

This is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century.

This type of dagger is called Dojani after the name of another AlHasa maker ( and attributed often to Oman when in fact it is not) These are predominantly made in Alhasa, where the style evolved into the highly curved one to suit the southern Arab taste who in turn named this style "Dojani" after one of its most famous makers, Hussain alDajani.

There are plenty of other Eastern Saudi (Alhasa and Hafouf) makers and some moved to Oman and UAE where their descendants still work in this field and related items.

The style was copied by various southern Saudi makers from Khamis Mushait, Najran and other southern cities. Makers such as Ibn Shuwail, Alhawashi and alMarri amongst others who I'll mention in an article soon.

[BANDOOK]

that's amazing knowledge and information,A alnakkas,cheers

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by harrywagner

A few more photos Can anyone help with the translation?

Salaams Harry Wagner, As already noted this is from Al Hasa in Eastern Saudia. The style is interesting and carries the copied in style of the Muscat Khanjar...and its 7 rings, the mulberry fruit clusters and the little shields above the belt outer rings common on Nizwa weapons...and the general aura of the Muscat and Sayyidiyyah styles. The link between Oman and Al Hasa was through the trading ports of Muscat and Bahrain. In addition great camel trains brought goods as well as slaves from Buraimi to the Al Hasa oasis therefor the linki can clearly be seen. "Similar" mirroring of style can be seen in the Habaabi Khanjar from Abha now in SW Saudia near the Yemen border... Look in Search for this. Type The Omani Khanjar.. or... Habaabi

See maps below. Note that in the old days Al Hasa oasis was part of the Al Bahrain region.

[harrywagner]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century.
.

Thanks! I am surprised. The seller never mentioned the item's age, but it sure looks like an antique to my untrained eye. I will ask the seller when he bought it. Thanks again!

[harrywagner]

Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th. I have asked the seller when they bought it, but our lack of a common language is a problem. His English is only slightly better than my poor French, so a clear understanding of when this actually was is still a "work in progress". I "think" what he is telling me is that his Father bought it between 1940 and 1950. Remember that the French had a big presence in the ME at that time.

I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns".

Harry

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by harrywagner

Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th. I have asked the seller when they bought it, but our lack of a common language is a problem. His English is only slightly better than my poor French, so a clear understanding of when this actually was is still a "work in progress". I "think" what he is telling me is that his Father bought it between 1940 and 1950. Remember that the French had a big presence in the ME at that time.

I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns".

Harry

If you read Lofty's first Para carefully you will see that he says that "if the father made it" then it would be earlier. Perhaps if you posted, as he suggests, a clearer pic of the inscription then things can be further clarified.
Also bear in mind that the second half of the 20th c is from 1950 onwards, which could possibly mean that the Khanjar is 66 years old at least.
As has been discussed elsewhere many times, it is difficult to accurately age these items as they were not made in a factory, so no actual records exist. The only possibility is to have WATERTIGHT provenance or at least a VALID makers mark/signature.
I personally do not doubt Lofty's dating, as he and others of this Forum who actually live in the ME, have done much research on weapons of that region.
Stu

[kronckew]

i've been to al hasa back in the early 1980's with some friends, scenery was interesting tho mostly shades of brown. interesting 'caves' & fissures in the al qara mountain and an ancient old man still making clay pots, jugs, etc from the local clay. nice old souks, i remember a bunch of copper/brass artisans tapping away making bowls, trays, coffee/tea pots etc. in front of their shops. i gather it's been 'modernised' quite a bit, shopping malls, etc. now. was a nice, tho warm, day trip down from dhahran for the wives and kids.

[harrywagner]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

a nice piece! :-)

This is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century.

This type of dagger is called Dojani after the name of another AlHasa maker ( and attributed often to Oman when in fact it is not) These are predominantly made in Alhasa, where the style evolved into the highly curved one to suit the southern Arab taste who in turn named this style "Dojani" after one of its most famous makers, Hussain alDajani.

There are plenty of other Eastern Saudi (Alhasa and Hafouf) makers and some moved to Oman and UAE where their descendants still work in this field and related items.

The style was copied by various southern Saudi makers from Khamis Mushait, Najran and other southern cities. Makers such as Ibn Shuwail, Alhawashi and alMarri amongst others who I'll mention in an article soon.

Thank you for your help! It is a nice knife regardless of how old it is, so I will try not to worry too much about it's age. It just seems "old" to me, but as Stu has pointed out, there are many here, like yourself, that know more than I do. Hopefully the photos will help. Thanks again. I hope I did not offend. I do appreciate the information, and the help.

[A.alnakkas]

Its a good dagger and not made yesterday. If that's what's worrying you, Harry.

Good pictures too, but reversed (which is fine) its my main language so you can trust me on this one. It says: Mohammed AbdulMajid Dajani. This is actually very interesting as it shows something I've seen rarely but was present in multiple pieces that fell in my collection or seen in other collections. Mohammed AbdulMajid (there is no other with that name I know of,who made khanjars) signed it "Dajani" keep in mind that family names always start with "al" its more of a testament to its original or perhaps most skilled maker, Hussain alDajani.

The best thing about AlHasa makers was to me their close proximity to my country and to the citizens of my country. Hasawis are very family/clan oriented and pride themselves in knowing each other. So when I began my research I struggled first until I began asking Hasawis and a wealth of information was unlocked. All of the sudden I know that makers of swords/daggers I own are alive and some inherited by their children who continue the work still (albeit only for custom orders)

I am in contact with Mohammed AbdulMajid's nephew and AlHasa's most prominent researcher, the craftmanship is dying out with the young choosing other professions and the old either quitting due to lack of income or simply passing away. So you do have a decent item with a rich history to appreciate, and this type is closely connected to a previous type that I am working to produce a proper article on its history.

So, dont be upset about digits that the local users and makers never really cared about :-)))

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Harry Wagner, As already noted this is from Al Hasa in Eastern Saudia. The style is interesting and carries the copied in style of the Muscat Khanjar...and its 7 rings, the mulberry fruit clusters and the little shields above the belt outer rings common on Nizwa weapons...and the general aura of the Muscat and Sayyidiyyah styles. The link between Oman and Al Hasa was through the trading ports of Muscat and Bahrain. In addition great camel trains brought goods as well as slaves from Buraimi to the Al Hasa oasis therefor the linki can clearly be seen. "Similar" mirroring of style can be seen in the Habaabi Khanjar from Abha now in SW Saudia near the Yemen border... Look in Search for this. Type The Omani Khanjar.. or... Habaabi

See maps below. Note that in the old days Al Hasa oasis was part of the Al Bahrain region.

This is actually very interesting. I do see why this type would often be considered a descendant or influenced by the Saidi dagger, it makers sense, both have many similarities.

Now when it comes to the term Habaabi, from where did it originate, Peter?

I do not know of any area called Habaabi, there is Alhababiya in Madina but thats way off course. There is alHabaabi tribe, but why would a type of dagger worn through out the kingdom (even by some of AlSaud) be considered specific to a certain tribe that did not produce a single artisan for this style?

Asir region and other southern Saudi areas use many styles, one of which is the one in discussion and this style has well known makers and lesser known ones. Some are actually made in Riyadh by skilled Indian workers. Some are custom made in Oman too. So its abit more broad than a single tribe.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

This is actually very interesting. I do see why this type would often be considered a descendant or influenced by the Saidi dagger, it makers sense, both have many similarities.

Now when it comes to the term Habaabi, from where did it originate, Peter?

I do not know of any area called Habaabi, there is Alhababiya in Madina but thats way off course. There is alHabaabi tribe, but why would a type of dagger worn through out the kingdom (even by some of AlSaud) be considered specific to a certain tribe that did not produce a single artisan for this style?

Asir region and other southern Saudi areas use many styles, one of which is the one in discussion and this style has well known makers and lesser known ones. Some are actually made in Riyadh by skilled Indian workers. Some are custom made in Oman too. So its abit more broad than a single tribe.

Salaams A.alnakkas,

SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=habaabi

This library reference is self explanatory. Abha is the centre focal point fed by the important seaport Jizzan...and in the old days a stop off port to and from Zanzibar. (Muscat Sur Jizzan Zanzibar Jizzan Sur Muscat) The link to Omani Khanjars is very obvious; and an entirely logical transmission of that style to the Asir and before it itself was absorbed into Saudia...in about 1923...though it took some decades before the shroud of silence and secrecy was actually lifted on the entire region. It is my view that al Wustah ...through Sur...provided the style of dagger into the Asir copied by silversmiths and stamped locally.

Some local influence is visible including the Flower Men tribal stamp...a bunch of flowers. Usually on the reverse. The likely use in Oman of the descriptive word for daggers of this type from that area is Habaabi meaning of Abha.

On age...I have to agree on how difficult this is. What conditions was it worn in?... Was it stored for years ....?...What you are trying to do is guesstimate the age ... look at the obvious wear of being on the waist for decades ...See what back up evidence there is... belt?...and how much credence would you place on that?...belts are renewable...old belts can be put on new weapons...ha! but more to the point... every bit of the khanjar can be replaced ...so how to decide ?? Good blades will go on and on whilst it is very easy to switch a hilt...Silver goes old looking quite quickly... You cant win...but you can generalize and nothing wrong in saying the middle date...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams A.alnakkas,

SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=habaabi

This library reference is self explanatory. Abha is the centre focal point fed by the important seaport Jizzan...and in the old days a stop off port to and from Zanzibar. (Muscat Sur Jizzan Zanzibar Jizzan Sur Muscat) The link to Omani Khanjars is very obvious; and an entirely logical transmission of that style to the Asir and before it itself was absorbed into Saudia...in about 1923...though it took some decades before the shroud of silence and secrecy was actually lifted on the entire region. It is my view that al Wustah ...through Sur...provided the style of dagger into the Asir copied by silversmiths and stamped locally.

Some local influence is visible including the Flower Men tribal stamp...a bunch of flowers. Usually on the reverse. The likely use in Oman of the descriptive word for daggers of this type from that area is Habaabi meaning of Abha.

On age...I have to agree on how difficult this is. What conditions was it worn in?... Was it stored for years ....?...What you are trying to do is guesstimate the age ... look at the obvious wear of being on the waist for decades ...See what back up evidence there is... belt?...and how much credence would you place on that?...belts are renewable...old belts can be put on new weapons...ha! but more to the point... every bit of the khanjar can be replaced ...so how to decide ?? Good blades will go on and on whilst it is very easy to switch a hilt...Silver goes old looking quite quickly... You cant win...but you can generalize and nothing wrong in saying the middle date...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

While the "flower men" do wear this style now, it was never their invention. Historically they carried the dharia more than this style but since this style now is the current vogue :-)

Abha is not called Habaabi, Habaabi is a tribe that is present in that region. The flower men are not Habaabi too, and most of them live in the mountain of Habala.

If its an Omani term for this style of dagger, then that does not make it a 'habaabi' dagger.

[harrywagner]

Many thanks for the comments and the wealth of information. I had to remind myself that I own a Kaskara that also looks like late 19th but is really only mid 20th. The Kaskara and this Jambiya were not made in the same place, but both were made (and presumably used) in rugged terrain. Maybe items from this part of the world age quickly if they are worn and used daily. Thanks again! Much appreciated.

Harry

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by harrywagner

Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th.............................................. ..........I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns".

Harry

Harry, do not under estimate how worn an item can look when used daily in a desert environment. I have noticed this with many Arabian jambiya I have seen, they look worn and well used but I know that they probably not nearly as old as they appear. You have a very nice, complete set, it is possible that the belt is older and was reused, who knows.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

While the "flower men" do wear this style now, it was never their invention. Historically they carried the dharia more than this style but since this style now is the current vogue :-)

Abha is not called Habaabi, Habaabi is a tribe that is present in that region. The flower men are not Habaabi too, and most of them live in the mountain of Habala.

If its an Omani term for this style of dagger, then that does not make it a 'habaabi' dagger.

The dagger from Abha is called the "Habaabi" in Oman. Meaning` of Al Abha. Consider the historical reasoning built around the important sea port of Jazzan feeding into the entire area ...Abha being the capital.....coupled with the vital sea route link of Muscat, Sur, Jazzan and Zanzibar and reverse. Zanzibar was the capital of Oman (Stone Town) and shipping thrived during the reign of Saaid Bin Sultan between 1804 and 1856 as well as large parts of the time before and after his death. It is easy to see how the al Wustah weapon transmitted to the Asir which at the time was Yemeni...but absorbed into Saudia in 1923.

Do not confuse Ahsa with the Asir style. The transmission or copying of style in the al Hasa Oasis in Eastern Saudia may well also have come from al Wustah style....but that is more difficult to establish because the hilt is largely re designed...It may be also partly copied from the Royal Khanjar (Sayyidiyyah) or the Muscat weapon.

It may be further seen that the Royal Khanjar hilt was designed from Indian form but that another Khanjar was instrumental in its looks...that of the Muscat Khanjar.. itself remarkably similar to the al Wustah !! The last 200 plus years have allowed the Omani Khanjar situation to spread and tangle, although, for what its worth we have now got a fairly firm hand on the idiosyncrasies and mirroring of types...and neighboring country variants.

Almost all the Northern Oman workshops are capable of producing almost all of the different Khanjars of Oman...

Any scabbard technically can be joined with a Royal Khanjar Hilt.... forms mix and mingle and because dagger parts are interchangeable confusion can sometimes run rampant. The wife of one Sultan redesigned the Khanjar Hilt of her husband but only the hilt...thus, there are 4 ringer and 7 ringer (and sometimes more rings) scabbards with the royal hilt.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Reading the argument between Lotfi and Ibrahiim teaches me something.

Here are two very smart, knowledgeable and dedicated guys, fluent in local language, living right smack in the area of interest, having access to the local sources and even living masters, spending a lot of time researching strictly local weapons , and... still disagreeing with each other:-).

What becomes obvious is that history of any weapon is significantly more complex than we imagine and no matter how authoritative is the opinion of any expert, there is significantly more mystery under the surface.

And that's the fun of it!

Thank you both!

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The dagger from Abha is called the "Habaabi" in Oman. Meaning` of Al Abha. Consider the historical reasoning built around the important sea port of Jazzan feeding into the entire area ...Abha being the capital.....coupled with the vital sea route link of Muscat, Sur, Jazzan and Zanzibar and reverse. Zanzibar was the capital of Oman (Stone Town) and shipping thrived during the reign of Saaid Bin Sultan between 1804 and 1856 as well as large parts of the time before and after his death. It is easy to see how the al Wustah weapon transmitted to the Asir which at the time was Yemeni...but absorbed into Saudia in 1923.

Maybe a few Omani individuals who are around the area you work in call it Habaabi? A few Omani researchers (Jamal AlKindi for one) seem to simply call it a Saudi Khanjar amongst other Omani collectors. Thats hardly an argument. I think its an issue of what the locals call it and what foreigners do. I tend to go with what the locals use :-))

Still, Omanis, or any other Arab society for that matters, do not call Abha "Habaabi" I find that very odd especially that there is no source or anything to support it.

Do not confuse Ahsa with the Asir style. The transmission or copying of style in the al Hasa Oasis in Eastern Saudia may well also have come from al Wustah style....but that is more difficult to establish because the hilt is largely re designed...It may be also partly copied from the Royal Khanjar (Sayyidiyyah) or the Muscat weapon.

All Asiri makers copy the dojani style. The style simply got modified by having a slightly more curved scabbard compared to the one posted by HarryWagner. Pictures added of one perfect example actually, previously posted in the forum. The chape inscription while faded, I am able to read it and its made by non other than Hussain AlDajani himself.

It may be further seen that the Royal Khanjar hilt was designed from Indian form but that another Khanjar was instrumental in its looks...that of the Muscat Khanjar.. itself remarkably similar to the al Wustah !! The last 200 plus years have allowed the Omani Khanjar situation to spread and tangle, although, for what its worth we have now got a fairly firm hand on the idiosyncrasies and mirroring of types...and neighboring country variants.

Almost all the Northern Oman workshops are capable of producing almost all of the different Khanjars of Oman...

Any scabbard technically can be joined with a Royal Khanjar Hilt.... forms mix and mingle and because dagger parts are interchangeable confusion can sometimes run rampant. The wife of one Sultan redesigned the Khanjar Hilt of her husband but only the hilt...thus, there are 4 ringer and 7 ringer (and sometimes more rings) scabbards with the royal hilt.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I agree that there is a very strong similarity to Oman. But other parts of the peninsula used similar styles as old as the Saidi. I'll forward you an article soon just doing the final touches :-))

[Jim McDougall]

Well noted Ariel, and it does seem to be sort of an inherent circumstance with the human syndrome, perception, ideas and all manner of subjective situations.
Clearly both Ibrahiim and Lofty are extremely knowledgeable in these areas, and of course there are going to be discrepancies in terminology and predominance of forms regionally etc.

It seems to me that all of this gets very confusing with the matter of terminology and other aspects, and maybe a more categorized analysis of the various types could be set down, noting characteristics, the terms they are called by, and diffusional or development notes.

I would imagine that various forms crossed into other regions and might have been duplicated, especially if craftsmen were also relocated into other areas.

A 57 Chevy in Paris is still an American car.......only if Renault had somehow produced a number of them for whatever reason, would those individual cars become 'French'.

[kronckew]

a parallel allegorical anecdote:

renault (french) sells dacia (romanian) autos and owns the company, and they use the same 1500cc dci turbo-diesel engine in the renault and dacia. oddly the same engine is also used in some other well known brand of cars from other nations...

is my dacia stepway lauriate 1.5 litre dci french or romanian? or as they are now part of europe, is it just european? it's right hand drive, meets the british regulations, not the european union ones, so is it british?

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well noted Ariel, and it does seem to be sort of an inherent circumstance with the human syndrome, perception, ideas and all manner of subjective situations.
Clearly both Ibrahiim and Lofty are extremely knowledgeable in these areas, and of course there are going to be discrepancies in terminology and predominance of forms regionally etc.

It seems to me that all of this gets very confusing with the matter of terminology and other aspects, and maybe a more categorized analysis of the various types could be set down, noting characteristics, the terms they are called by, and diffusional or development notes.

I would imagine that various forms crossed into other regions and might have been duplicated, especially if craftsmen were also relocated into other areas.

A 57 Chevy in Paris is still an American car.......only if Renault had somehow produced a number of them for whatever reason, would those individual cars become 'French'.

It would be a French made copy of an American car. Just like this style of Khanjar made in the south is a copy of a design originating in AlHasa.

Its interesting to note that people of Asir (and other parts of the south) to a certain point in the early 20th century DID NOT wear this style. Rather, they wore a style locally called Mhaliya, Yemeni styles and dharias. It was adopted later on and became a fashion.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

a parallel allegorical anecdote:

renault (french) sells dacia (romanian) autos and owns the company, and they use the same 1500cc dci turbo-diesel engine in the renault and dacia. oddly the same engine is also used in some other well known brand of cars from other nations...

is my dacia stepway lauriate 1.5 litre dci french or romanian? or as they are now part of europe, is it just european? it's right hand drive, meets the british regulations, not the european union ones, so is it british?

Exactly!!!
So I have a '50 Ford and I drop in a Chevy 350............is my car still a Ford or is it a Chevy with a Ford body?

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Exactly!!!
So I have a '50 Ford and I drop in a Chevy 350............is my car still a Ford or is it a Chevy with a Ford body?

Jim, when it comes to cars at least it is the body that counts so you definately have a Ford.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

It would be a French made copy of an American car. Just like this style of Khanjar made in the south is a copy of a design originating in AlHasa.

Its interesting to note that people of Asir (and other parts of the south) to a certain point in the early 20th century DID NOT wear this style. Rather, they wore a style locally called Mhaliya, Yemeni styles and dharias. It was adopted later on and became a fashion.

That's what I thought, and Im at a disadvantage here as I know next to nothing on khanjhars, though I consider them fascinating ethnographically.
So if a certain style is well known as indigenous or predominant in an area, and becomes known to be produced in another area.......would it then be called to the original term of style...but noted as a product of such and such area?

In my view, it seems too many collectors and others describing weapons are somehow afraid of qualifying or adding pertinent details in their descriptions.
For example.....a such and such style of khanjhar but produced and provenance from /location/.

It does take more effort, and in discussion the same, to properly qualify the variations and mitigating circumstances surrounding examples or forms.

We have long known for example that the so called katar dagger of India is actually known in Indian parlance as jamadhar. Yet through transcribing or other error, the term became displaced. Often, though we know the proper term as jamadhar, we parenthesize 'katar' with it.

In actuality, it is surprising just how much grey area there is within the study of arms and armor, especially ethnographic. It just takes a bit more work to properly describe and classify things.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Jim, when it comes to cars at least it is the body that counts so you definately have a Ford.

That's what I would think, but weird things happen. I once had a '63 Buick Riviera (wish I still had it!) and it was the first year of this model Buick Riviera. It apparently was ordered new in 1962, and was one of the first group made.......and on the registration it was called a 1962 Riviera.
There was no such animal.......and really no issues...but see what I mean?
There will always be someone who has to split hairs.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

Reading the argument between Lotfi and Ibrahiim teaches me something.

Here are two very smart, knowledgeable and dedicated guys, fluent in local language, living right smack in the area of interest, having access to the local sources and even living masters, spending a lot of time researching strictly local weapons , and... still disagreeing with each other:-).

What becomes obvious is that history of any weapon is significantly more complex than we imagine and no matter how authoritative is the opinion of any expert, there is significantly more mystery under the surface.

And that's the fun of it!

Thank you both!

Salaams Ariel, haha!! I think you have a good point ! I have to say that your specialized knowledge is astounding and also well worth reading about and it is a pleasure to take part... I had a two hour argument with 10 Bedouin women in the Sharqiyyah on which of the fingers 12 rings were worn. They all had different ideas...I won... but I was shattered at the end of it !!
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Maybe a few Omani individuals who are around the area you work in call it Habaabi? A few Omani researchers (Jamal AlKindi for one) seem to simply call it a Saudi Khanjar amongst other Omani collectors. Thats hardly an argument. I think its an issue of what the locals call it and what foreigners do. I tend to go with what the locals use :-))

Still, Omanis, or any other Arab society for that matters, do not call Abha "Habaabi" I find that very odd especially that there is no source or anything to support it.




All Asiri makers copy the dojani style. The style simply got modified by having a slightly more curved scabbard compared to the one posted by HarryWagner. Pictures added of one perfect example actually, previously posted in the forum. The chape inscription while faded, I am able to read it and its made by non other than Hussain AlDajani himself.



I agree that there is a very strong similarity to Oman. But other parts of the peninsula used similar styles as old as the Saidi. I'll forward you an article soon just doing the final touches :-))

Salaams, There is some confusion here. Are you mixing up Asiri and al Ahsa weapons?
Are they different?...

1. I think the Ahsa come from Oman by direct camel train from Nizwa and Buraimi. It may be remembered that Wilfred Thesiger came across an Omani camel train in the 1950s laden with goods and slaves bound for the Al Ahsa Oasis. My view is that Ahsa was supplied by camel train and also by sea from Muscat...It is also possible they got ships on the coast delivering goods either directly onto the Saudia coast or via Bahrain thence to al Ahsa.

2. Regarding the Asir. Ships were on that route from Muscat and Sur to Jazzan then Zanzibar ...Stone town Zanzibar was the capital of Oman under Said the Great 1804 to 1856. It became the capital in about 1840....The Omani al Wustah Khanjar is mirrored in the Asir design.

In both cases the Omani Khanjar design is dominant in Ahsa and Asiri design. Omani people call the Asiri type "Habaabi" meaning of Abha the capital in the region. (see map) What is clear is that Asir style comes directly from the Sharqiyyah in the form of the al Wustah Khanjar...and thus the sea port of Sur is important.

In terms of the Ahsa it is by no means clear. More research needs to be done. Regarding what you think some collectors here call it...I cannot say, nor does it form part of a scientific reasoning...but broadly speaking the consensus across Oman's souks seems to indicate that Habaabi means of that region around Abha...which seems fairly logical.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams, There is some confusion here. Are you mixing up Asiri and al Ahsa weapons?
Are they different?...

I do not think the confusion is from my part, as I know these weapons well enough and can read the maker's names and is able to trace the makers to their specific areas. Both make identical styles with very minor differences. Both the examples posted in this forum post are what southern Arabs call Dojani (and that Omani supposedly call habaabi..) Both items are made by identified Ahsa makers.

1. I think the Ahsa come from Oman by direct camel train from Nizwa and Buraimi. It may be remembered that Wilfred Thesiger came across an Omani camel train in the 1950s laden with goods and slaves bound for the Al Ahsa Oasis. My view is that Ahsa was supplied by camel train and also by sea from Muscat...It is also possible they got ships on the coast delivering goods either directly onto the Saudia coast or via Bahrain thence to al Ahsa.

2. Regarding the Asir. Ships were on that route from Muscat and Sur to Jazzan then Zanzibar ...Stone town Zanzibar was the capital of Oman under Said the Great 1804 to 1856. It became the capital in about 1840....The Omani al Wustah Khanjar is mirrored in the Asir design.

Except there is no proof of Omani style khanjars worn in Asir region during the 19th century. Most of their style was dominantly Yemeni since it was.. part of Yemen.

In both cases the Omani Khanjar design is dominant in Ahsa and Asiri design. Omani people call the Asiri type "Habaabi" meaning of Abha the capital in the region. (see map) What is clear is that Asir style comes directly from the Sharqiyyah in the form of the al Wustah Khanjar...and thus the sea port of Sur is important.

I would love a single reference of an Omani of credibility with regards to heritage and tradition using the term Habaabi to address Asir. A textual reference or even an interview would do, be it in Arabic or English.

In terms of the Ahsa it is by no means clear. More research needs to be done. Regarding what you think some collectors here call it...I cannot say, nor does it form part of a scientific reasoning...but broadly speaking the consensus across Oman's souks seems to indicate that Habaabi means of that region around Abha...which seems fairly logical.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Actually.. AlAhsa is one of the better researched region, compared to Ha'il and Riyadh (also produced khanjars by the way) AlAhsa is rather easy to gain information about. its a very close knit society with makers still alive. The makers also do not have the tradition of belittling craftsmen that exist in more bedouin influenced areas. Thus its easy to go there and find information or to enquire with Hasawi researchers who produced alot of regarding the craftsmanship in the area and the families there.


Anyway, this style of khanjar can be identified by an upturned scabbard, chequered style wire wrap fixed with 7 rings over cloth/leather (usually green but other colours can be found) the hilt is larger and less decorated compared to the Saidi style. The chape and locket are made out filigree silver in multiple styles too.

[blue lander]

I have a nearly identical Khanjar, except mine's missing the belt and in much worse condition

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18700