African Spear For Comment

Lew · 29th July 2005, 04:17 AM

Hi Guys

This is the other item I picked up this week. A nice example of Ngbandi spear?
It seems a bit short to me even though it measures 68" long is it possible that it was shortened at some point in it's life? Let me know what you think.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 29th July 2005, 08:01 AM

Lew,
That spear looks absolutely fine to me, a close up of the end would be helpful. From what we see at the moment it is a really great spear ,super find. Tim+Sam

Freddy · 29th July 2005, 08:34 AM

You are quite right : a Ngbandi spear. There's nothing wrong with the length of your spear. I have a similar one which measures about 63 inches (157,5 cm).

Don't forget these were weapons for close combat, stabbing spears. The long blades of Ngbandi spears were used for thrusting through the shield of the opponent.

I see some nice carving on the handle.

The metal 'shovel-type' butt is not typical, but spear blades were traded all over Central Africa. It's possible that the owner preferred that type of butt end to the more conventional one. Nothing wrong with that either.

Later, I will post some pictures of butt ends on the forum.

Freddy · 29th July 2005, 12:33 PM

Nothing wrong with that butt, just another type.

Here are some pics of different spear butts from the Congo area

Typical spear butt found on Ngbandi spears, but also used by the following tribes : Bati, Benge, Poto, Ngombe and Gens d'Eau. Mostly made of iron and rather heavy. To counter balance the weight of the big spear blade. (Length : 8 cm)

Top to bottom :

Bell as found on spears coming from the Mongo-tribes (Length : 29 cm, width : 10 cm)

Long iron spike, Ngbandi spear. (Length : 55 cm)

Three smaller spears (top to bottom)

From the Nkundu, Lia or Konda-tribes, made from copper. (Length : 8 cm)

End of an light spear, tribe unknown (Length : 8,5 cm)

Butt end of a small spear from the Bana-pygmees, Aruwimi-area (Congo)(Length : 19,5 cm)

Two butt ends of thrusting spears (top to bottom)

Used by following tribes : Ngbaka, Ngombe, Doko. The butt end is wrapped with iron banding. (Length : 19 cm)

Atypical spear butt from an unknown tribe (Congo-area). Looks like a spear head, but is not sharpened. (Length : 19,5 cm)

I have to measurements to give you an idea, this doesn't mean the butt ends are always exactly this size. These can vary quite considerably.

Tim Simmons · 29th July 2005, 02:35 PM

This spear butt is also from the congo. A heavy octagonal spike, the pin in the female socket also seems to be a congo thing. You do not see it in southern spears or those from the east and the horn, I have not seen it from the western trade coasts or the north though I have seen a pin in the blade socket in Hausa and other northern spears. Tim

VANDOO · 29th July 2005, 03:22 PM

THE BEST ARTICLE ON BUTTS EVER ON THE FORUM !

ONE APPEARS TO HAVE A BELL ON IT IS IT A DANCING BUTT

Tim Simmons · 29th July 2005, 07:13 PM

Lets all do the konga!!!

Ferguson · 30th July 2005, 10:54 AM

Lew, you've got the bestest toys!

Steve

Mark · 30th July 2005, 10:31 PM

Yes, yes, very cool stuff. But what I want to know is...what in blazes is your avatar, Freddy?

It looks like the Planter's Peanut man with a really bad sunburn. He seems to be holding a naginata, though.

Freddy · 31st July 2005, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bowditch

Yes, yes, very cool stuff. But what I want to know is...what in blazes is your avatar, Freddy?

It looks like the Planter's Peanut man with a really bad sunburn. He seems to be holding a naginata, though.

It's an old (and very nice) Wayang golek cepak puppet from Cirebon. It had a label with the name 'Umar Madi'. It has a real moustache and.....a keris, of course. The red colour of the face is an indication of the puppet's character, which can be furious.

Here's a better picture :

Bill · 1st August 2005, 10:37 AM

I have a feeling that the stuff Freddy & Vandoo have collected might be as interesting as a visit to a museum.

Mark · 1st August 2005, 07:15 PM

Aha.

He actually doesn't look like the Planter's Peanut man when you see him close up. Very nice. I have two Burmese marionettes, a warrior and a prince (carrying a dha and a dagger, respectively), which I rather like.

zalmoxis · 5th August 2005, 05:22 AM

Hi I am new here. I just want to ask Freddy if he has a Boa tribe spear. I could not found one and I looked hard. Belgium is the heaven for the African Weapon collection. You must have one!!:-).

Freddy · 5th August 2005, 06:13 PM

Hi Zalmoxis,

Great to have you here. Look at your private messages for my answer.

Freddy

29th July 2005, 04:17 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	African Spear For Comment Hi Guys This is the other item I picked up this week. A nice example of Ngbandi spear? It seems a bit short to me even though it measures 68" long is it possible that it was shortened at some point in it's life? Let me know what you think. Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 29th July 2005 at 11:23 AM.

29th July 2005, 12:33 PM	#4
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Butts Nothing wrong with that butt, just another type. Here are some pics of different spear butts from the Congo area Typical spear butt found on Ngbandi spears, but also used by the following tribes : Bati, Benge, Poto, Ngombe and Gens d'Eau. Mostly made of iron and rather heavy. To counter balance the weight of the big spear blade. (Length : 8 cm) Top to bottom : Bell as found on spears coming from the Mongo-tribes (Length : 29 cm, width : 10 cm) Long iron spike, Ngbandi spear. (Length : 55 cm) Three smaller spears (top to bottom) From the Nkundu, Lia or Konda-tribes, made from copper. (Length : 8 cm) End of an light spear, tribe unknown (Length : 8,5 cm) Butt end of a small spear from the Bana-pygmees, Aruwimi-area (Congo)(Length : 19,5 cm) Two butt ends of thrusting spears (top to bottom) Used by following tribes : Ngbaka, Ngombe, Doko. The butt end is wrapped with iron banding. (Length : 19 cm) Atypical spear butt from an unknown tribe (Congo-area). Looks like a spear head, but is not sharpened. (Length : 19,5 cm) I have to measurements to give you an idea, this doesn't mean the butt ends are always exactly this size. These can vary quite considerably.

29th July 2005, 02:35 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,771	This spear butt is also from the congo. A heavy octagonal spike, the pin in the female socket also seems to be a congo thing. You do not see it in southern spears or those from the east and the horn, I have not seen it from the western trade coasts or the north though I have seen a pin in the blade socket in Hausa and other northern spears. Tim Attached Images

5th August 2005, 06:13 PM	#14
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Hi Hi Zalmoxis, Great to have you here. Look at your private messages for my answer. Freddy

29th July 2005, 08:01 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,771	Lew, That spear looks absolutely fine to me, a close up of the end would be helpful. From what we see at the moment it is a really great spear ,super find. Tim+Sam

29th July 2005, 08:34 AM	#3
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	You are quite right : a Ngbandi spear. There's nothing wrong with the length of your spear. I have a similar one which measures about 63 inches (157,5 cm). Don't forget these were weapons for close combat, stabbing spears. The long blades of Ngbandi spears were used for thrusting through the shield of the opponent. I see some nice carving on the handle. The metal 'shovel-type' butt is not typical, but spear blades were traded all over Central Africa. It's possible that the owner preferred that type of butt end to the more conventional one. Nothing wrong with that either. Later, I will post some pictures of butt ends on the forum.

29th July 2005, 03:22 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE BEST ARTICLE ON BUTTS EVER ON THE FORUM ! ONE APPEARS TO HAVE A BELL ON IT IS IT A DANCING BUTT

29th July 2005, 07:13 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,771	Lets all do the konga!!!

30th July 2005, 10:54 AM	#8
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Lew, you've got the bestest toys! Steve

30th July 2005, 10:31 PM	#9
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Yes, yes, very cool stuff. But what I want to know is...what in blazes is your avatar, Freddy? It looks like the Planter's Peanut man with a really bad sunburn. He seems to be holding a naginata, though.

1st August 2005, 10:37 AM	#11
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	I have a feeling that the stuff Freddy & Vandoo have collected might be as interesting as a visit to a museum.

1st August 2005, 07:15 PM	#12
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Aha. He actually doesn't look like the Planter's Peanut man when you see him close up. Very nice. I have two Burmese marionettes, a warrior and a prince (carrying a dha and a dagger, respectively), which I rather like.

5th August 2005, 05:22 AM	#13
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	Hi I am new here. I just want to ask Freddy if he has a Boa tribe spear. I could not found one and I looked hard. Belgium is the heaven for the African Weapon collection. You must have one!!:-).