Belduque from Spanish Mexico

S.Workman · 9th April 2015, 01:40 AM

Hello all, I have been cultivating an interest in these one edged daggers from Old Mexico. There have been some great examples found archaeologically, and by accident, and some have survived the years in collections. Does anyone know any good sources of information about these? Aside from references that they are sometimes locally made descendants of Mediterranean dirks, information is hard to find. I would love to see some detailed drawings that illustrate assembly, detail, etc.
I actually first became interested in these because they have been found all over the old Spanish, later Mexican holdings in N. America, and because that includes Texas and Arkansas, some believe that they are a direct ancestor to the Bowie knife, particularly as they have a clipped point.

Jim McDougall · 9th April 2015, 04:22 AM

Outstanding example of these sturdy Spanish colonial items. These utility knives, like most such items on the frontiers of New Spain, served as utility implements or as weapons as needed.
According to Simmons & Turley (198, p.130) these 'peasant knives' (also termed belduque) were essentially belt knives thrust into the sash. These were indeed distinctly related to the Meditteranean dirk, and in that sense have a degree of relationship to the original Bowie knife. We remain unclear on the exact or true nature of Jim Bowie's actual 'iron mistress', as it was of course lost at the Alamo...but it is generally held to have derived from the Mediteranean type knives familiar to the Bowie brothers in their knife fighting in Louisiana and Mississippi.

The Spanish peasant knife, also termed cuchillo de cintura, had the distinctive grooved neck stemming from the blade heel, groove or fuller from decorative panel to point. Most blades seem larger, Brickerhoff and Chamberlain (1972) show two examples; 13.5" and 11.5" with both examples from New Mexico and Mexico (plates 216, 217).

The hilts grip of wood or horn, three rivets through tang, swell toward butt and rounded or domed pommel.

These were the knife counterparts of the venerable espada ancha, the machete like hanger used by civilian horsemen and the Soldados de Cuera cavalry in the Presidios. The chiseled decoration on these 'belduque' are very much like the frontier made espada ancha blades have, often inlaid or beautifully inscribed.

"Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821"
Brinckerhoff & Chamberlain, 1972

Southwestern Colonial Ironwork"
Marc Simmons & Frank Turley, 1980
* this is by far the most comprehensive detail on these

" Daggers and Fighting Knives of the Western World"
Harold L Peterson , 1958 pp.63-65
The hilt was

S.Workman · 9th April 2015, 10:52 AM

Excellent. I am trying to get "Spanish Military Weapons" via interlibrary loan, as it is very costly. I will seek out the others. Although I have only seen a few examples, they all seem to have quite attractive decoration.

S.Workman · 9th April 2015, 12:32 PM

Also, I am trying to figure out from not very good photos/drawings what the geometry of the blade is all about. It seems to be fairly complex smithy work for peasant craftsmen.

Jim McDougall · 9th April 2015, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Workman

Also, I am trying to figure out from not very good photos/drawings what the geometry of the blade is all about. It seems to be fairly complex smithy work for peasant craftsmen.

Actually while these are termed 'peasant' knives, they are by no means the work of rural blacksmiths. The term is simply romantically applied as these were equally carried by persons of standing and fashioned by skilled workers as shown by Simmons and Turley. The geometry of the blades is well described by these authors, and does correspond to the Meditteranean knives which often came aboard vessels from European ports. These knives in shape have been around for many centuries, and these follow these actually somewhat standard traditions.
As you have noted however, the 'clipped back' or false edge is a feature typically more ascribed to a fighting weapon, and as these were like most others of the time, multipurpose, that would be a key factor.

Contact me by PM maybe I can help further.

9th April 2015, 01:40 AM	#1
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	Belduque from Spanish Mexico Hello all, I have been cultivating an interest in these one edged daggers from Old Mexico. There have been some great examples found archaeologically, and by accident, and some have survived the years in collections. Does anyone know any good sources of information about these? Aside from references that they are sometimes locally made descendants of Mediterranean dirks, information is hard to find. I would love to see some detailed drawings that illustrate assembly, detail, etc. I actually first became interested in these because they have been found all over the old Spanish, later Mexican holdings in N. America, and because that includes Texas and Arkansas, some believe that they are a direct ancestor to the Bowie knife, particularly as they have a clipped point. Attached Images

9th April 2015, 04:22 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	Outstanding example of these sturdy Spanish colonial items. These utility knives, like most such items on the frontiers of New Spain, served as utility implements or as weapons as needed. According to Simmons & Turley (198, p.130) these 'peasant knives' (also termed belduque) were essentially belt knives thrust into the sash. These were indeed distinctly related to the Meditteranean dirk, and in that sense have a degree of relationship to the original Bowie knife. We remain unclear on the exact or true nature of Jim Bowie's actual 'iron mistress', as it was of course lost at the Alamo...but it is generally held to have derived from the Mediteranean type knives familiar to the Bowie brothers in their knife fighting in Louisiana and Mississippi. The Spanish peasant knife, also termed cuchillo de cintura, had the distinctive grooved neck stemming from the blade heel, groove or fuller from decorative panel to point. Most blades seem larger, Brickerhoff and Chamberlain (1972) show two examples; 13.5" and 11.5" with both examples from New Mexico and Mexico (plates 216, 217). The hilts grip of wood or horn, three rivets through tang, swell toward butt and rounded or domed pommel. These were the knife counterparts of the venerable espada ancha, the machete like hanger used by civilian horsemen and the Soldados de Cuera cavalry in the Presidios. The chiseled decoration on these 'belduque' are very much like the frontier made espada ancha blades have, often inlaid or beautifully inscribed. "Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821" Brinckerhoff & Chamberlain, 1972 Southwestern Colonial Ironwork" Marc Simmons & Frank Turley, 1980 * this is by far the most comprehensive detail on these " Daggers and Fighting Knives of the Western World" Harold L Peterson , 1958 pp.63-65 The hilt was

9th April 2015, 10:52 AM	#3
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	Excellent. I am trying to get "Spanish Military Weapons" via interlibrary loan, as it is very costly. I will seek out the others. Although I have only seen a few examples, they all seem to have quite attractive decoration.

9th April 2015, 12:32 PM	#4
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	Also, I am trying to figure out from not very good photos/drawings what the geometry of the blade is all about. It seems to be fairly complex smithy work for peasant craftsmen.