Pamor for protection and power over the enemy

Jussi M. · 11th June 2009, 10:36 PM

edit: I think I am mistaken on the attributes of Unthuk Banyu. Whilst I like the looks it is some other pamor that I remember having these attributes. - The question still remains though

Greetings,

I have a liking towards pamor Unthuk Banyu. It looks splendid to my eye. If I am not mistaken it has been associated with attributes that suit a warrior or a man who may face harms way on his travels.

I wonder what other pamors have been regarded as suitable for men such as these? Am especially interested on the Javanese perspective but will also entertain the points of view from places other than Java as well.

So, what are they and why?

Thanks,

J

A. G. Maisey · 12th June 2009, 01:44 AM

Jussi, I'm a lover, not a fighter.

My pamor is batu lapak :- the bearer will have many beautiful women and there will be no quarreling in his home; a royal pamor ensuring harmony amongst wives.

Amuk Murugul · 12th June 2009, 02:58 AM

Hullo Jussi,

Among the Soenda, damascene patterns were usually reserved for the privileged classes. As far as I know the Soenda have never traditionally crafted damascene patterns. They have always accepted whatever 'comes out of the oven' (as a 'Divine' gift). So the damascene patterns most commonly encountered among the Soenda would have been Toetoel (spots) and Soelangkar (lines). Of course they did have a variety in the mix of metals used (that may account for why patterns made by some smiths have varying shades, between silver and rust-coloured on the same blade). Even today (so far) sources of some of the metals used remain unknown/lost in time, thus making the exact duplication of some items very difficult. To make 'deliberate' damascene patterns, the pioneers in Soenda smithing renaissance of today have had to study the methods used by the Javanese.

Best,

Rick · 12th June 2009, 04:20 AM

A stupid question perhaps, but what is the Jawa keris in kelengan (black iron)to represent; being without pamor ?

Anything, any aspect at all ?

pakana · 12th June 2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jussi, I'm a lover, not a fighter.

My pamor is batu lapak :- the bearer will have many beautiful women and there will be no quarreling in his home; a royal pamor ensuring harmony amongst wives.

Yeap, that's THE pamor...

Amuk Murugul · 12th June 2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

A stupid question perhaps, but what is the Jawa keris in kelengan (black iron)to represent; being without pamor ?

Anything, any aspect at all ?

Hullo Rick,

To many Javanese, Keris Kelengan enables the owner to think and act more wisely. BUT ... a definite NO-NO for a groom... as it tends to make it more difficult for him to beget progeny.

Best,

Greybeard · 12th June 2009, 09:21 AM

Hello

What are the attributes of Beras Wutah? This pamor seems to be very common; several of my keris do have it. Actually, it`s one of my favourite
pamors!

Regards,

Heinz

A. G. Maisey · 12th June 2009, 10:05 AM

A quick flick through Tammens vol.II shows that the first group of motifs listed possess qualities that are useful to a warrior, the second group listed are identified as specifically for warriors.

Bear in mind that opinions on the tuah of a pamor change from place to place, and often from person to person. Use a different source and you will find variation from this list.

class 1.
anda agung

banaspati

manggoda

makuta mesir

pandita bala pandita

tundung mungsuh

class 2.
naga serum

panah

pantolan

ron pakis

sada saler

tundung peksi

Wos wutah ( beras wutah) is an absolutely positive pamor motif. Good for everything --- safety, peace, seeking good fortune, social intercourse, and protection against insufficiency --- and it is suitable to everybody. You can't go wrong with wos wutah.

Greybeard · 12th June 2009, 10:14 AM

Nice to know, Alan, as I really like beras wutah/wos wutah!

Heinz

ferrylaki · 12th June 2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Hello

What are the attributes of Beras Wutah? This pamor seems to be very common; several of my keris do have it. Actually, it`s one of my favourite
pamors!

Regards,

Heinz

beras wutah/wos wutah...pamor of prosperity. suitable for every one.

Rick · 12th June 2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Rick,

To many Javanese, Keris Kelengan enables the owner to think and act more wisely. BUT ... a definite NO-NO for a groom... as it tends to make it more difficult for him to beget progeny.

Best,

Thank you Amuk ,
I had thought it was for wisdom , but not sure .

Fortunately I have already taken care of the other part .

He's 27 yrs old .

Didn't have any kelengan then .. whew !!

Rick

pakana · 15th June 2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jussi, I'm a lover, not a fighter.

My pamor is batu lapak :- the bearer will have many beautiful women and there will be no quarreling in his home; a royal pamor ensuring harmony amongst wives.

So, what about kul buntet? It seems that their "power" is preety much the same, and I think Tammens consider kul buntet higher than batu lapak, something like a "royal" pamor...Any thoughts??Alan??

A. G. Maisey · 15th June 2009, 03:03 PM

Both pretty much the same, but I'll stick with batu lapak.

I don't like the word associations with kul buntet, I do like the word associations with batu lapak. Its just a nicer thought pattern.

11th June 2009, 10:36 PM	#1
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	Pamor for protection and power over the enemy edit: I think I am mistaken on the attributes of Unthuk Banyu. Whilst I like the looks it is some other pamor that I remember having these attributes. - The question still remains though Greetings, I have a liking towards pamor Unthuk Banyu. It looks splendid to my eye. If I am not mistaken it has been associated with attributes that suit a warrior or a man who may face harms way on his travels. I wonder what other pamors have been regarded as suitable for men such as these? Am especially interested on the Javanese perspective but will also entertain the points of view from places other than Java as well. So, what are they and why? Thanks, J Last edited by Jussi M.; 12th June 2009 at 12:46 AM.

12th June 2009, 02:58 AM	#3
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo Jussi, Among the Soenda, damascene patterns were usually reserved for the privileged classes. As far as I know the Soenda have never traditionally crafted damascene patterns. They have always accepted whatever 'comes out of the oven' (as a 'Divine' gift). So the damascene patterns most commonly encountered among the Soenda would have been Toetoel (spots) and Soelangkar (lines). Of course they did have a variety in the mix of metals used (that may account for why patterns made by some smiths have varying shades, between silver and rust-coloured on the same blade). Even today (so far) sources of some of the metals used remain unknown/lost in time, thus making the exact duplication of some items very difficult. To make 'deliberate' damascene patterns, the pioneers in Soenda smithing renaissance of today have had to study the methods used by the Javanese. Best, Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 12th June 2009 at 08:55 AM.

12th June 2009, 01:44 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Jussi, I'm a lover, not a fighter. My pamor is batu lapak :- the bearer will have many beautiful women and there will be no quarreling in his home; a royal pamor ensuring harmony amongst wives.

12th June 2009, 04:20 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	A stupid question perhaps, but what is the Jawa keris in kelengan (black iron)to represent; being without pamor ? Anything, any aspect at all ?

12th June 2009, 09:21 AM	#7
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Hello What are the attributes of Beras Wutah? This pamor seems to be very common; several of my keris do have it. Actually, it`s one of my favourite pamors! Regards, Heinz

12th June 2009, 10:05 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	A quick flick through Tammens vol.II shows that the first group of motifs listed possess qualities that are useful to a warrior, the second group listed are identified as specifically for warriors. Bear in mind that opinions on the tuah of a pamor change from place to place, and often from person to person. Use a different source and you will find variation from this list. class 1. anda agung banaspati manggoda makuta mesir pandita bala pandita tundung mungsuh class 2. naga serum panah pantolan ron pakis sada saler tundung peksi Wos wutah ( beras wutah) is an absolutely positive pamor motif. Good for everything --- safety, peace, seeking good fortune, social intercourse, and protection against insufficiency --- and it is suitable to everybody. You can't go wrong with wos wutah.

12th June 2009, 10:14 AM	#9
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Nice to know, Alan, as I really like beras wutah/wos wutah! Heinz

15th June 2009, 03:03 PM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Both pretty much the same, but I'll stick with batu lapak. I don't like the word associations with kul buntet, I do like the word associations with batu lapak. Its just a nicer thought pattern.