![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
A little different but related. Here is a Moro flag from the Sulu sultanate from around 1900. Rare and with a spear and wavy bladed kris sewn into the design. Enjoy.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,285
|
![]()
Very nice !
![]() What is the other symbol Jose ? The white disc with blue center ... Taming ? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
Thank you Rick.
As far as that round spot is concerned, I have no idea - hoping some one else can illuminate. ![]() I have seen one with 2 black parts in the white part before....... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,285
|
![]()
Where'd you come across that beauty Jose ?
Is it yours ? ![]() If it is , congratulations ! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
Yes it is mine.
![]() Got it off of ebay. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,285
|
![]()
Very nice !!
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Centerville, Kansas
Posts: 2,196
|
![]()
Great flag Jose!!
![]() Robert |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Centerville, Kansas
Posts: 2,196
|
![]()
Migueldiaz,
The website you have linked in your post states what I have heard before about the stars, that they represent the five territories of the Sultanate of Sulu. I have no idea if this is correct or not. ![]() Robert |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
Thank you - as far as the other side is concerned, I will try to get a picture of the other side.
As far as Ron Z is concerned, he is Spunger. However, the story if the 5 stars being the provinces of the Sulu Sultanate is in another source as well. I go with this story as well. Another note, most of the flags like this have straight kris, this one has a wavy bladed kris. The only one of this type of flag I have seen so far. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,092
|
![]()
Nice flag José, and as you point out, even rarer with the wavy kris. Thanks for the flag link Miguel. It is interesting to look at the pre-American colony flags. Obviously these ones with the field of stars is somewhat based on the American flag which intrigues me since the Americans were obviously the enemy of the Moros. Why copy your enemy's flag?
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
If I am not mistaken the Sultan of Sulu at this time sided with the might of the US, though some broke away from this decision as demonstrated by the Battle of Bud Badsak in 1915.
I must make a correction - after looking again at Paolo's site, half the battle flags like mine have a wavy bladed kris in them after all. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]() Quote:
Thus the American flag-inspired version of the Sulu flag must have been crafted during the love phase of the relationship ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 264
|
![]()
Nice find on ebay! Wish I could be so lucky.
I think the white sphere is a UFO. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
|
![]()
Well! You know I love the 'associated ethnographia', so I doubt you'll be suprised when I add my congratulations!
![]() What a nice and rather unusual piece! A fantastic backdrop for weapons too, I'm always looking for nice things to 'enhance' the display of my weapons. IMHO your flag wold rate as 'He shoots, he scores'. Regards Gene |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]() Quote:
On a lighter note, I don't think that my imagined scenario below would be far-fetched ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kernersville, NC, USA
Posts: 793
|
![]()
Jose, that's a really nice flag. You were quite fortunate to win it.
Thanks for sharing with us! STeve |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 | |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]() Quote:
Thank you folks for your kind words and enjoy: |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Centerville, Kansas
Posts: 2,196
|
![]()
Jose,
Thank you very much for posting the close-ups of how the white designs were applied to the red back-ground. By looking at the pictures first posted and comparing them to the ones just now posted am I correct in assuming that the designs were applied to one side only and then on the opposite side the red back-ground was cut away to show them? Again, congratulations on being able to acquire this wonderful piece of history and thank you for posting the new pictures. Robert |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
Yes Robert you are correct in your observations. In some ways this makes the flag more delicate. In fact I am afraid of hanging it even in museum fashion for fear of ripping it.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Centerville, Kansas
Posts: 2,196
|
![]()
Jose,
Not knowing the dimensions makes it hard to make suggestions on how to best store or display an item like this. If the size is not too great I think that I would have the cloth stabilized, treated to protect it from bugs, mold and mildew and then put in between two panes of glass in a frame so it could be viewed from both sides. Robert |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,285
|
![]()
With a mat to keep the cloth from being 'pinched' .
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 26
|
![]()
With the arrival of the Americans in Sulu the star became a fancy symbol. The 5 stars represents the sultanate's dominions; Sulu, Tawi-Tawi, Basilan, North Borneo and southern Palawan. This flag seems a different variation to me as it appears without the Barung, for the Shakirullah family. A Datu once told me that weapons on the flag symbolizes branches of the royal family. Kalis for Kiram and Budjak (spear) for the Maharaja Adinda family. The object below can be the gate of Mecca as what the former flags states.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#26 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 264
|
![]() Quote:
![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#27 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
Reichsritter - I also thank you for the information. Very helpful. I have seen several of these without the barung, and some with the barung.
Check out these examples: http://www.webalice.it/paopadd/MORO_...FLAGS_-_2.html http://www.webalice.it/paopadd/MORO_...FLAGS_-_3.html http://www.webalice.it/paopadd/MORO_...FLAGS_-_4.html Dimasalang - good point about the gates of Mecca. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 26
|
![]() Quote:
Battara, I don't know what year this flag was but during the American occupation of Sulu there was a point that the Shakirullah branch was a rival claimant to the throne. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#29 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 264
|
![]() Quote:
![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#30 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 26
|
![]()
[QUOTE=Dimasalang]Sorry, what I meant by "II" was in reference to the symbol seen in this photo...not Roman numerals. Thought you would understand what I meant by just typing "II".
![]() Thanks, I see now what you mean. what I also mean is the old gate less the minaret on both side. The silhouette of the main Mecca Masjid gate just looks like it. Anyway, just a probable explanation. Actually very little info available on what these objects on different flags really are (except for the minarets on the gate). By the way , the owner of the website is a friend of mine. Paolo would be very glad to share any new info he might have regarding the flags. I met him here in Manila 3 years ago. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|