Yatagan markings

[serdar]

Does anyone know this sword mark?
It us older blade with european marks used on very rich ottoman yatagan.

[fernando]

Welcome to the forum, serdar.

As recomended in forum rules, please post a picture of the whole piece.

[serdar]

Hellou, thank you.
Here they are.

[gp]

very beautiful ! My compliments ☼☼☼

back to your question; I have a bichaq with a similar star / sun like marking but also can not place it other then Ottoman and perhaps ( a guess only) Black sea area....

But against that guess is the fish / dolphin-like creature at the bottom of the scabbard which one can find in the Kotor erea and Greece or actually Crete.

Another strange but most beautiful decoration are the 2 eagles on top of the grip / handle at the inside part, which is seperated and not connected like a double headed eagle which is known from Montenegro, Albania, Habsburg/Austria and Russia?

[serdar]

Originally Posted by gp

very beautiful ! My compliments ☼☼☼

back to your question; I have a bichaq with a similar star / sun like marking but also can not place it other then Ottoman and perhaps ( a guess only) Black sea erea....

But against that guess is the fish / dolphin-like creature at the bottom of the scabbard which one can find in the Kotor erea and Greece or actually Crete.

Another strange but most beautiful decoration are the 2 eagles on top of the grip / handle at the inside part, which is not a double headed eagle which is known from Albania, Habsburg/Austria and Russia.

Hello Gp, thank you!
Well, i know about what kind of bichak you are talking, it is in silver and corals i presume , it has a stars on a blade, i had one, it is similar but it isnt the same thing, this is bladesmith mark, on that kind of albanian bichaq, that are stars that are engraved on blade for decoration, they are very nice little knives.
They are albanian prizren made mostly.

This is 100% european blade, my friend who colects schiavona swords found similar marking on schiavona.
Profile is from sword, one side is cut down, and bent in yatagan profile, very sharp and very good temper, marks are from both sides, deep bladesmith marks, soo called punce.

About mounting, well, it is stuning in person, very heavy and solid silver, ahat is all hand chiseled, every surface is or chiseled or engraved, or dotted.
On the ears if you notice arms, tjat is ottoman baroque motives, that fish/monster in balkan aždaja creature i found on many yatagans from balkan to turkey, i realy dont know the meaning on it, some say it is put on high status person yatagans, some it is on ex penaive ones, other it is some rank in military? Who knows, i think it is just a decoration.

But eagle like creatures are interesting, they look persian to me, but realy i dont know.
It is the mark that im interested in, becouse mounting is most probably turkey, in according with that ottoman baroque arms mark mounting is from 1650-1750 that period, (i surely know that it is at least that old becouse it is taken by my great great great great Â…. Relative in fight in montenegro in the midle of 18 century, from then it is in family posesion.
It has a writen dedication to my relative on montenegrin cirilic with year.

But i think that blade is older than that.
Both turks as europeans had a practice to capture good enemy blade and remount it to them self.
I have a kilij, tjat has a blade from old european sabre, 1550-1650 period, that is taken by turks and they put on it silver ottoman older style handle, and then my ancestors captured it in fight and in cetinje engraved their creast in gold on the blade and writen dedication in 1796.

Well, enough writing. 😁
If i may ask where are you from, are you from balkan?

[gp]

Originally Posted by serdar

Hello Gp, thank you!

If i may ask where are you from, are you from balkan?

Thank you very much for this most interesting and excellent information!
As for myself; I am Dutch but with ties to the former Yu, which I frequently visited and even lived & worked in prior the tragic events in the 90ies.

The dolphin reminds my of Cika Joco; a dolphin which lived in the Boka Kotorska / bay of Kotor with his female compagnon in the mid 80ies and was a playmate to the local children and protected by the fishermen.

Could it perhaps be that in the past, this animal was used as a decoration due to respect and love of the people in the Mediterranean..? Just a guess though.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by gp

As for myself; I am Dutch but with ties to the former Yu, which I frequently visited and even lived & worked in prior the tragic events in the 90ies.

The dolphin reminds my of Cika Joco; a dolphin which lived in the Boka Kotorska / bay of Kotor with his female compagnon in the mid 80ies and was a playmate to the local children and protected by the fishermen.

Could it perhaps be that in the past, this animal was used as a decoration due to respect and love of the people in the Mediterranean..? Just a guess though.

Hmm, i realy dont know 100% what that head is, is it animal from mitology or real animal, but in most cases it is called azdaja.
It is a kind of monster or dragon, there are swords, some call them albanian swords, but they are a kind of ledenik, swords made in boka kotorska, handles are in silver, and on the end of a handle is a dragons head, so i think that same is with those heads on yatagans, they are some kind of mithologycal dragon or monster head.
Maybe pure decoration and perhaps maybe they are used like gargoyles are used on european cathedrals, to deter evil or bad luck from wearer of the sword?
Il atach picture of handle of sword made in boka, see the similary crafted raised silver like on ledenica pistols, allso made in boka kotorska.
There are allso venetian stiletos that are made in boka kotorska, but are very rare and expensive.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by gp

.

The dolphin reminds my of Cika Joco; a dolphin which lived in the Boka Kotorska / bay of Kotor with his female compagnon in the mid 80ies and was a playmate to the local children and protected by the fishermen.

Could it perhaps be that in the past, this animal was used as a decoration due to respect and love of the people in the Mediterranean..? Just a guess though.

Picture of sword handle.

[gp]

Originally Posted by serdar

There are allso venetian stiletos that are made in boka kotorska, but are very rare and expensive.

would you have pictures of them ? I would like to see them very much !

Very rare and expensive? Just like a Crnagorka ...?
I do not mean the loza but the djevojka from Crngora; sharper than a yataghan and faster than an AK 47; deadlier ..!☺

the handle is a piece of art indeed. I believe I saw one in the museum of Risan when I showed my wife the Boka / Bay:
https://www.museummaritimum.com/eng/sala%20oruzje.htm

[serdar]

Originally Posted by gp

would you have pictures of them ? I would like to see them very much !

Very rare and expensive? Just like a Crnagorka ...?
I do not mean the loza but the djevojka from Crngora; sharper than a yataghan and faster than an AK 47; deadlier ..!☺

the handle is a piece of art indeed. I believe I saw one in the museum of Risan when I showed my wife the Boka / Bay:
https://www.museummaritimum.com/eng/sala%20oruzje.htm

Hello, yes i have one picture with them, il post it here, well venetian ones are similar but more comon and they are in range 15-20 te, so these ones will be around 20-30 te.

They are beautiful, to me more practical than venetian ones becouse they dont have i call it crown that vrnetian ones do.

But both are excellent and are works of art, there are spectacular venetian examples.ond thing that anoys me is that some museums like american museums they describe those styletos and boka kotorska weapons like persian knife or persian dagger, but museums are poor infornation source.
Museums in croatia end three so called experts are weong abozt bunch of yatagans, from way they are made to engraving techniques to years, fir example museum in split is proud that they have two yatagans from 15. Century, but they are bad filigre albanian made imitations from 20. Century, with falsely engraved year.

About sword handle, yes there are similar ones in kotor maritime museum il post you pictures from museum.

By Crnogorka you mean a Vlaho Bukovac painting?

I posted pictures of boka kotorska made stiletos, and knives, and of boka kotorska kotorski nož or pala, it is similar to yatagan but it is not yatagan.

Allso one picture is from old book on balkan weapons, picture of two swords they are called ledenik, ledenici, they are rarest of all boka kotirska made weapons, they are maybe similar to stiletos, but are not, they are sword, often called zapašnjak, they were caried by belt like yatagans and palas, and are extremely rare, in kotor there are no examples in museum, very very rare.

[gp]

Originally Posted by serdar

By Crnogorka you mean a Vlaho Bukovac painting?

thank you very much for your feedback !

By Crnogorka I dead mean loza, the brand I used to drink in the Boka and Sarajevo...
and it was good quality. Nothing compared thought to the home made I got as well to bring home...

[serdar]

Originally Posted by gp

thank you very much for your feedback !

By Crnogorka I dead mean loza, the brand I used to drink in the Boka and Sarajevo...
and it was good quality. Nothing compared thought to the home made I got as well to bring home...

Well best loza is from crna gora!