Unknown Prince with keris

erikscollectables · 3rd June 2009, 09:07 PM

A friend of mine owns this interesting photo.
It shows a prince (?) with a nice keris.

Is there anybody out there who can identify the person in the photo?

If not at least a nice picture to share I thought.

Regards, Erik

David · 3rd June 2009, 10:54 PM

A handsome young man (and keris

) indeed. I can't help with the ID except to say that the dress looks Surakarta to me and the era of the photo looks late 19th-early 20th century so that narrows it down somewhat.

Rick · 3rd June 2009, 11:14 PM

Must be a Royal; there's something about the expression after you look at it for a bit .

Anyone ?

kulbuntet · 5th June 2009, 12:19 PM

The photo has a mark on the right botom, a name of i think a dutch photgrapher and the word Djokja. And a fas as i know the Sarong he wears have a Yogjakarta Kreaton Royal Batik print. Some batik print like this are only allowd for Royal Members, like Sultan and Pangeran. The same sort of print only for kreaton membersof Yogja is Prang Rusak see http://www.flickr.com/photos/yanrf/2509391840/. And the people in Yogja have the knot of their head wrap at the back, not like solo were it is worn at front( like the hulu solo, the sort of "nose" as some people call it).The jacket is Yogja too, same board colars as the photo writen under here. Never the less does he wear a Solo Keris Ladrang with Solo Seluut.

I have a old photo Of The Prince of Solo With his wife Raden Ajoe, both in Yogja dress. So there is proof that members of royal family have their picture taken while wearing dress from other kingdoms.

Regards Michel

David · 5th June 2009, 03:35 PM

Very interesting info Michel. So the question in my mind would be is a Javanese prince more likely to clothe himself or his keris in the dress of another kingdom? For some reason i suspect the dress of the keris is a better indicator of the kingdom of this gentleman than the clothes he wears especially given your story about the photo of the prince of Solo that you have.

ganjawulung · 5th June 2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Very interesting info Michel. So the question in my mind would be is a Javanese prince more likely to clothe himself or his keris in the dress of another kingdom? For some reason i suspect the dress of the keris is a better indicator of the kingdom of this gentleman than the clothes he wears especially given your story about the photo of the prince of Solo that you have.

Dear David, Michel and Eric,

Sure this is a picture of a Javanese prince. Young prince (your photo) -- quite certain -- named BRMH Sularso Kunto Suratno or King (Prince) Paku Alam VIII of Pakualaman kingdom (principality). This small kingdom in Yogyakarta Sultanate is quite complicated to explain.

Pakualaman is a small hereditary principality within the Sultanate of Yogyakarta. It was created in 1812 when Natakusuma (later Paku Alam I) was rewarded by helping the British quell the conflict in Yogyakarta in June 1812. It became the mirror-image of the Mangkunegaran principality in the territory of the Susuhunanate of Surakarta (Solo). This is why, although Pakualaman is a kingdom in Yogyakarta, but the style of keris they wear is the Solonese or Surakartan style.

When Soekarno (then the first President of Indonesia) proclaimed the independence of Indonesia (Oost Indische, East Indies) from Dutch rule on 17th of August 1945, two days later Sultan Hamengku Buwana IX of Yogyakarta and King Paku Alam VIII of Pakualaman sent message to Soekarno, that they supported the independence of Indonesia. Then, the two kingdoms merged as Special Administrative Area of Yogyakarta (DIY).

And this is another photo of the late Paku Alam VIII (1910-1998)...

GANJAWULUNG

Raden Usman Djogja · 5th June 2009, 11:30 PM

Pak Ganja,

The young prince was wearing a ring with stone (agate). Was that agate Kiai Basuki? Where is that legendary agate now?

regards,
OeS

ganjawulung · 6th June 2009, 02:42 AM

Really I don't know, Raden,

I don't even know that the young Prince had a ring that called Ki Basuki, until you mentioned it... What I know is that he (Paku Alam) loved traditional archery. Once, in Indonesian National sports forum, he popularized traditional archery as one national sport beside pencak silat (please correct me, if I'm wrong...)

GANJAWULUNG

Raden Usman Djogja · 6th June 2009, 09:49 AM

Pak Ganja,

Agate (akik) as pusaka was a common practice in villages of Jawa. I feel that it is still now. Paku Alam VIII was quite popular in Jogja's villages. His popularity was not only in his effort to perpetuate the jawanese traditional archery but also in his other activities.

Villagers believed that, in some special abilities, he was much stronger that ordinary people. It was believed that he had powerful pusakas. One of them was Ki Basuki.

I don't know exactly why a lot of villagers considered agate as pusaka. Was it because of the scarcity of keris in the village. As post WWII (or post coldwar generation), I just think that because at that time, keris was much more expensive than agate. Most villagers couldn't afford kerises. They created othe kind of pusaka. Perhaps....

OeS

erikscollectables · 6th June 2009, 12:36 PM

Many thanks for the interesting info so far on behalf of the owner of the photo. Regards, Erik

A. G. Maisey · 8th June 2009, 08:28 AM

In traditional Javanese thought, money and things associated with money are something less than clean, and are certainly not things that a man of good breeding should be associated with.

As a consequence, the ways in which to store wealth that were available to a man who respected himself, were limited.

One of those ways was by using precious and semi-precious stones as a store of wealth.

Perhaps one of the most affordable of semi-precious stones is the agate.Once the accountable value of the commodity had been established, it automatically became worthy of being something that could be passed to a following generation, and as an object that would have been in close personal contact with the previous custodian, it became elevated to the position of a recognised pusaka.

Of and by itself it could not become a pusaka,it could only achieve this status through contact with a previous custodian.

3rd June 2009, 09:07 PM	#1
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	Unknown Prince with keris A friend of mine owns this interesting photo. It shows a prince (?) with a nice keris. Is there anybody out there who can identify the person in the photo? If not at least a nice picture to share I thought. Regards, Erik Attached Images

6th June 2009, 12:36 PM	#10
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	Thanks Many thanks for the interesting info so far on behalf of the owner of the photo. Regards, Erik

3rd June 2009, 10:54 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	A handsome young man (and keris ) indeed. I can't help with the ID except to say that the dress looks Surakarta to me and the era of the photo looks late 19th-early 20th century so that narrows it down somewhat.

3rd June 2009, 11:14 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Must be a Royal; there's something about the expression after you look at it for a bit . Anyone ?

5th June 2009, 12:19 PM	#4
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	The photo has a mark on the right botom, a name of i think a dutch photgrapher and the word Djokja. And a fas as i know the Sarong he wears have a Yogjakarta Kreaton Royal Batik print. Some batik print like this are only allowd for Royal Members, like Sultan and Pangeran. The same sort of print only for kreaton membersof Yogja is Prang Rusak see http://www.flickr.com/photos/yanrf/2509391840/. And the people in Yogja have the knot of their head wrap at the back, not like solo were it is worn at front( like the hulu solo, the sort of "nose" as some people call it).The jacket is Yogja too, same board colars as the photo writen under here. Never the less does he wear a Solo Keris Ladrang with Solo Seluut. I have a old photo Of The Prince of Solo With his wife Raden Ajoe, both in Yogja dress. So there is proof that members of royal family have their picture taken while wearing dress from other kingdoms. Regards Michel

5th June 2009, 03:35 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Very interesting info Michel. So the question in my mind would be is a Javanese prince more likely to clothe himself or his keris in the dress of another kingdom? For some reason i suspect the dress of the keris is a better indicator of the kingdom of this gentleman than the clothes he wears especially given your story about the photo of the prince of Solo that you have.

5th June 2009, 11:30 PM	#7
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Pak Ganja, The young prince was wearing a ring with stone (agate). Was that agate Kiai Basuki? Where is that legendary agate now? regards, OeS

6th June 2009, 02:42 AM	#8
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Really I don't know, Raden, I don't even know that the young Prince had a ring that called Ki Basuki, until you mentioned it... What I know is that he (Paku Alam) loved traditional archery. Once, in Indonesian National sports forum, he popularized traditional archery as one national sport beside pencak silat (please correct me, if I'm wrong...) GANJAWULUNG

6th June 2009, 09:49 AM	#9
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Pak Ganja, Agate (akik) as pusaka was a common practice in villages of Jawa. I feel that it is still now. Paku Alam VIII was quite popular in Jogja's villages. His popularity was not only in his effort to perpetuate the jawanese traditional archery but also in his other activities. Villagers believed that, in some special abilities, he was much stronger that ordinary people. It was believed that he had powerful pusakas. One of them was Ki Basuki. I don't know exactly why a lot of villagers considered agate as pusaka. Was it because of the scarcity of keris in the village. As post WWII (or post coldwar generation), I just think that because at that time, keris was much more expensive than agate. Most villagers couldn't afford kerises. They created othe kind of pusaka. Perhaps.... OeS

8th June 2009, 08:28 AM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	In traditional Javanese thought, money and things associated with money are something less than clean, and are certainly not things that a man of good breeding should be associated with. As a consequence, the ways in which to store wealth that were available to a man who respected himself, were limited. One of those ways was by using precious and semi-precious stones as a store of wealth. Perhaps one of the most affordable of semi-precious stones is the agate.Once the accountable value of the commodity had been established, it automatically became worthy of being something that could be passed to a following generation, and as an object that would have been in close personal contact with the previous custodian, it became elevated to the position of a recognised pusaka. Of and by itself it could not become a pusaka,it could only achieve this status through contact with a previous custodian.