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#1 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 408
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Hello,
Here is my last bet (a little crazy). I bought this Keris without seeing the blade, seduced only by the delicacy of the details of the handle and the sheath that seemed very old and atypical. But there was no picture of the blade, only a description that said: blade ornamented with leaves with remains of gilding and pamor. Now that I have Keris in my hands, I notice that the wrangka is not adapted to this blade. The wrangka has a style that makes me think that it dates from the first half of the nineteenth century or before. By dismounting the Pendok (Banyumas?) I found an old collection numbers in Indian ink. I have the feeling that the base of Wrangka has been filed to fit the pendok. I suspect that originally the sheath was made of one (or two) piece of wood, without pengok, and that the lower part was damaged, it was cut and replaced by a light wood covered with a pendok. ![]() ![]() The blade with Naga, kinatah and his atractive pamor is very nice but more recent (I think). The description let me think of a blade with much simpler decorations so it was a real surprise when I saw the blade. ![]() I don't test the gold, but it's very different and much finer than the kinatah made of brass that I could see. What period could date this blade? ![]() |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 408
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More pictures
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
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Excellent bet! The hilt (buta bajang style) and the wrangka (perahu style) are from Cirebon/ Java North Coast and the pendok seems from this area also.
IMO the blade is old, the pamor pattern and the carving are very fine, from 19th century? Ex-museum piece? Regards |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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Hello Séverin,
Congrats, another excellent acquisition! IMVHO this blade is considerably older than the 19th c.; very good quality forging as well as sculpturing/kinatah, too. The hilt exhibits really good workmanship. Not one of the very early hilts but a really good example with interesting details. Could you post larger pics of all sides (and the top), please? The blade, selut, and hilt are a really fitting ensemble and may well be original. The top/crosspiece of the scabbard seems to be intact; the stem is often crudely shaped when a pendok is covering it originally. Only close inspection may allow to verify whether the stem and/or the pendok got added later. Regards, Kai |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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The blade fits quite well into the wrongko, the gandar was probably replaced indeed but it is not visible. I am not familiar with this style of nice pendok.
There seems to be some tiny writings on the gilt deer on one side? The naga and carvings look younger than the blade itsef (naga body especially) but it may be just an impression. Regards |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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I don't think so, Jean. The blade exhibiting the pamor just got (over-)cleaned and etched recently.
Regards, Kai |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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P.S.: Many collectors catalog their pieces and also mark them; thus, a number does not automatically suggest a former museum collection.
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#8 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
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Beautiful, very beautiful keris @@
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#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 408
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On the deer, it's just fine line features that in my opinion are meant to represent the fur of the animal. The body of the naga has been designed since the manufacture of the blade (I think) because it's very raised compared to the "flat" of the blade. And thank you all for yours comments. ![]() Last edited by Athanase; 7th July 2019 at 10:18 PM. |
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#10 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,100
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As to the fit, i have found that even some Jawa keris have blades that sometimes sit a little bit "proud" in their sheaths. In your case i simple allow that to be the case rather then forcing the blade to seat deeper in the opening, especially given the residual kinatah which you are quite likely to further chip away at if you keep forcing the blade into place. |
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#11 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,100
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Also, i see a mendak here, albeit an unusual one, not a selut. ![]() |
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#12 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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I think I can see a nice older keris with a very nice hilt, but for a keris that presents as this one does I am not able to give any further opinion on the blade without holding it in my hand and subjecting to microscopic examination.
The hilt is very nice indeed. |
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#13 |
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Well, everybody agrees that this a very nice and rare old kris!
![]() The blade was over-cleaned (mechanically?, some rust spots are still visible) but not etched recently I think. Regarding its age, 19th century starts on year 1800 so I doubt that it is "considerably" older. I would have hoped that Alan could say a little more about this piece even if it is difficult from the pictures. Regards |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,731
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Hello Séverin,
Beautiful keris! I am a little bit jealous. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#15 |
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Jean, I avoided the use of the word "old", I used "older" instead.
Frankly I'm troubled by two things, the pamor and the type of applied gold. It is absolutely impossible for me to form an opinion on this keris from a photograph. |
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#16 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
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Could you please elaborate a bit (in broad terms) about what troubles you with the pamor and applied gold, and does it affect your age estimate or anything else about this piece? Regards ![]() |
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#17 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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Jean, I apologise for being unable to comment further.
I have already said twice that I will not comment on a keris like this on the basis of photos, and I am not going to hang out a string of hypotheticals that would need more explanation than I am prepared to give in a forum that is open to the whole wide world. I can understand that use of "older" in this way could be confusing. I'm sorry. You could think of it like this:- an older vehicle, an older person, an older form of speech, an older type of cooking. it is a general comparison, we are not saying that the vehicle is necessarily an "old" vehicle, but rather that it is no longer a new vehicle. My use with this keris is in the same sense, it is no longer a new keris, it is an older keris, but I have pulled back on calling it straight out an old keris. Why? Because from a photo cannot tell that. I'm afraid that that is where I stop. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 408
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More pictures of the hilt :
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#19 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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Hello Séverin,
Thanks for the great series of pics which show a lot of details - neat photography skills! Apart from the base, the carving seems to be not as deep as it is with some examples of this type. More importantly, the carving is extremely detailed and I guess we all agree that this is a beautiful piece of art! I agree with your notion that the crosspiece was most likely not carved for this blade; please keep the scabbard as is though. IMHO, the blade, mendak, and hilt certainly are a good match! Regards, Kai |
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#20 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,100
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I agree with Kai on all fronts. The hilt is both beautiful and nicely photographed. Thanks for a better viewing.
Yes, seeing the somewhat topside view it does seem that this sheath was not original to the blade, nor particularly well adapted, but as Kai states, it seems a good visual fit so i would not attempt to change much. |
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#21 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 408
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Ok, Kai and David, thank you very much for your opinion.
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 188
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A lovely keris, and an exquisite jejeran! Congratulations!
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