Persian jambiya or khanjar - wootz

Valjhun · 22nd May 2009, 07:28 PM

Recently, I've got thisone. Nice, isn't it? What do you think?

ALEX · 22nd May 2009, 08:45 PM

Yes, very nice. I like the walrus hilt - has a nice patina on it. I did not like the inlay at first. The geometrical pattern like this is known on Qajar jambiyas (This is not a writing, but a decoration). But this one is ok, and also has an inlayed date: 120=1120, which is 1708. As this is a typical Qajar jambiya, i.e. late 18th/19th Century, the date does not match it, so I doubt this is an actual year, and could be a later attempt to impress with an earlier date.
Nice jambiya! Congrats!

TVV · 23rd May 2009, 12:38 AM

Cannot add much except also write: very nice, congratulations!

Valjhun · 23rd May 2009, 07:40 PM

Thank you!

What characters indicates the date??

TVV · 23rd May 2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Thank you!

What characters indicates the date??

Fourth picture from the top, lower pat of the blade, outside of the rest of the inlay.

Jens Nordlunde · 23rd May 2009, 09:48 PM

I read the year to be 1250 HA meaning 1834 AD - but I am not a specialist on Arabian numbers - am I wrong?

ALEX · 24th May 2009, 11:25 AM

Jens, I thought of it, and it does make sense. BUT there are 2 reasons I think the last digit - 0 - is not part of the date: it is positioned above the hotizontal allignment of the rest of the date line; and it matches another, similar character on the other side of the pattern, so I think it is a decoration and not a digit. Let's see what others think?

Jens Nordlunde · 24th May 2009, 04:52 PM

Alex, I see what you mean, and agree, but why do you think the missing number is not shown? Could the three digit number represent anything else than a year?

ALEX · 24th May 2009, 10:39 PM

Jens, sometimes the first numeral is omitted. As Arabic dates read left to right, the 1120 would be represented as 120. I do not think the three digits could stand for anything else other than a year. Sometimes the Serial Number is inscribed, but only on later objects, such as plates, boxes, etc, but not good quality blades.

erlikhan · 25th May 2009, 11:43 AM

i vote for 1250. Circle means a "5". A dot means "zero". The 3rd symbol looks more like a circle to me. In Arabic words are written from right to left, but numbers are from written left to right. As far as I know if the last digit is " zero", it can be ignored and often not written sometimes. (At least on some antique items. I have no information about contemporary grammer rules of Arabic)

Jens Nordlunde · 25th May 2009, 04:14 PM

Alex and Erlikhan,
Thank you very much for your explanations. I find it very interesting to see how the dates are read and understood on weapons from different areas.
Jens

ALEX · 25th May 2009, 06:17 PM

Jens, you're most welcome. We all should learn from one another...
speaking of which: I still think the date is 1120. Let's see what others think...

22nd May 2009, 07:28 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Persian jambiya or khanjar - wootz Recently, I've got thisone. Nice, isn't it? What do you think? Attached Images

22nd May 2009, 08:45 PM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Yes, very nice. I like the walrus hilt - has a nice patina on it. I did not like the inlay at first. The geometrical pattern like this is known on Qajar jambiyas (This is not a writing, but a decoration). But this one is ok, and also has an inlayed date: 120=1120, which is 1708. As this is a typical Qajar jambiya, i.e. late 18th/19th Century, the date does not match it, so I doubt this is an actual year, and could be a later attempt to impress with an earlier date. Nice jambiya! Congrats!

23rd May 2009, 12:38 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,614	Cannot add much except also write: very nice, congratulations!

23rd May 2009, 07:40 PM	#4
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Thank you! What characters indicates the date??

23rd May 2009, 09:48 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I read the year to be 1250 HA meaning 1834 AD - but I am not a specialist on Arabian numbers - am I wrong?

24th May 2009, 11:25 AM	#7
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Jens, I thought of it, and it does make sense. BUT there are 2 reasons I think the last digit - 0 - is not part of the date: it is positioned above the hotizontal allignment of the rest of the date line; and it matches another, similar character on the other side of the pattern, so I think it is a decoration and not a digit. Let's see what others think?

24th May 2009, 04:52 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Alex, I see what you mean, and agree, but why do you think the missing number is not shown? Could the three digit number represent anything else than a year?

24th May 2009, 10:39 PM	#9
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Jens, sometimes the first numeral is omitted. As Arabic dates read left to right, the 1120 would be represented as 120. I do not think the three digits could stand for anything else other than a year. Sometimes the Serial Number is inscribed, but only on later objects, such as plates, boxes, etc, but not good quality blades.

25th May 2009, 11:43 AM	#10
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	i vote for 1250. Circle means a "5". A dot means "zero". The 3rd symbol looks more like a circle to me. In Arabic words are written from right to left, but numbers are from written left to right. As far as I know if the last digit is " zero", it can be ignored and often not written sometimes. (At least on some antique items. I have no information about contemporary grammer rules of Arabic)

25th May 2009, 04:14 PM	#11
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Alex and Erlikhan, Thank you very much for your explanations. I find it very interesting to see how the dates are read and understood on weapons from different areas. Jens

25th May 2009, 06:17 PM	#12
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Jens, you're most welcome. We all should learn from one another... speaking of which: I still think the date is 1120. Let's see what others think...