Africans or dayak bronze hilted swords ?

Marius66 · 5th December 2023, 09:05 PM

Hello guys,

The seller told me these were two african small swords with bronze hilts
But scabbards and the blade looks something ''indonesian ''to me or reminds me dayak swords blades.

Heavy models,
One seems to have a brass hilt
Get them for a cheap price but I have to clean them, they were covered with mud ...

David · 5th December 2023, 09:34 PM

Well, they are certainly not African, but they aren't Dayak either. I believe these come from the Philippines, more specifically Bagobo culture. One might consider them a form of Bagobo kampilan.

Ian · 6th December 2023, 05:14 AM

Hello Marius,

As David has noted, these are from the southern Philippines. More specifically, they both come from the T'boli people of Cotobato Province in Mindanao. They are neighbors to several Lumad tribes (including the Bagobo and B'laan) as well as Maguindanao Muslims.

Your example with the knuckle guard is probably of relatively recent manufacture, post-1970, while the other one is likely older. The scabbards are of typical T'boli shape; many have incised carvings of geometric shapes and are often wrapped in ikat (patterned woven fabric) for which the T'boli are famous.

There are others on this forum who specialize in T'boli cultural artifacts and can give you more detailed information. You will find more about your swords by searching this Forum for other threads related to them. The T"boli call these swords tok or kafilan. The blades of these swords are generally very well forged, with good temper and hardened edge. You can see evidence of edge hardening in your pictures.

These swords have some market value, so you may have made a good deal. Although we don't dicuss prices on the forum, you may PM people to gauge their current value.

Marius66 · 6th December 2023, 12:17 PM

Thank's a lot for your messages and detailled answers !!
I read that these blades were often laminated,
I will try to see if that is the case and post pictures.

Kind regards

David · 6th December 2023, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

More specifically, they both come from the T'boli people of Cotobato Province in Mindanao. They are neighbors to several Lumad tribes (including the Bagobo and B'laan) as well as Maguindanao Muslims.

Marius, just to confirm, since varying answers can be sometimes be confusing and you might be wondering what is the actually correct answer, i believe Ian's answer of T'boli is probably the correct one. I was actually trying to remember the name of that tribe when i answered and only Bagobo, which shares some resemblance to these T'boli blades, came to mind.

Ian · 7th December 2023, 12:32 PM

David, I may have been a little hasty in saying both of these are T'boli. The one with the knuckle bow certainly is. The slightly shorter one has a hilt that might be Bagobo or B'laan. It is not the typical T'boli form. Both hilts appear to be cast from brass.

Similarly, the larger scabbard is typically T'boli. The other one could be T'boli but might be Bagobo or B'laan too. The "tubes" protruding from the end of the scabbard are found on several Lumad scabbards. The shorter scabbard is otherwise rather non-descript with regard to which group it may have come from.

JeffS · 7th December 2023, 03:12 PM

The one without the guard is Bagobo with a very nicely cast hilt and great scabbard. Nice score. The blade should etch nicely. I like the T'boli scabbard too.

Ian · 8th December 2023, 12:41 PM

Hi Jeff,

The blade on the Bagobo hilted sword could be of T'boli manufacture. The T'boli blades are high quality and sought after. The Bagobo did use blades acquired from the T'boli because of their quality. This particular blade may have a heat quenched edge. Hard to tell without cleaning and etching.

David · 8th December 2023, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

David, I may have been a little hasty in saying both of these are T'boli. The one with the knuckle bow certainly is. The slightly shorter one has a hilt that might be Bagobo or B'laan. It is not the typical T'boli form. Both hilts appear to be cast from brass.

Similarly, the larger scabbard is typically T'boli. The other one could be T'boli but might be Bagobo or B'laan too. The "tubes" protruding from the end of the scabbard are found on several Lumad scabbards. The shorter scabbard is otherwise rather non-descript with regard to which group it may have come from.

Thanks Ian. These are just slightly outside my field of collection, though i do find them interesting and worthy of study. Nice to know i wasn't too far off.

Marius66 · 8th December 2023, 08:34 PM

Good evening,
I cleaned the blades and hilts ,
Interesting in the bagobo model without guard, we now can see a part of the wood hilt under the brass.
For the blades, both really sharps, I cut myself twice while cleaning them 😁
I used vinegar , it darkened the blades but it don't seems there is a pattern,
Maybe is it useful to sand the blades and use a better etchant ?

Marius66 · 8th December 2023, 08:38 PM

Here the knuckle guard and blade,
I will soon clean the scabbards...

Marius66 · 8th December 2023, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Jeff,

The blade on the Bagobo hilted sword could be of T'boli manufacture. The T'boli blades are high quality and sought after. The Bagobo did use blades acquired from the T'boli because of their quality. This particular blade may have a heat quenched edge. Hard to tell without cleaning and etching.

There is a deep black side and a ''brighter''-""metallic'' on the sharp edge side of the blade without guard.
Is that what you call a '' heat quenched edge'' ?

Kind regards

Ian · 9th December 2023, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marius66

There is a deep black side and a ''brighter''-""metallic'' on the sharp edge side of the blade without guard.
Is that what you call a '' heat quenched edge'' ?

Kind regards

It could be. Your latest pictures seem to show differential hardening but etching would likely bring it out better. Heat and then quenching with oil or water will create a different crystalline structure and harder edge, which shows as a line along the edge that is a different color from the rest of the blade.

wildwolberine · 21st May 2024, 11:59 PM

I’m the new owner of this nice-looking tok/kafilan. Looks to have some age? The scabbard retains some of the woven binding and the grass? component. Whatever ornaments were originally present on the hilt appear to be missing. Seller photos, will post this beauty when it arrives!

Marbel · 23rd May 2024, 03:16 AM

Wildwolberine,

That’s a nice and very old Tboli kefilan. Terrific old scabbard as well, which I would identify as Blaan. Nice pick up and thanks for sharing.

Best,
Craig

Ian · 23rd May 2024, 04:05 PM

Hi WW,

Nice old example. I agree with Craig, this one could well be B'laan, the people "over the hill" from the T'boli.

BTW, the blades on these swords are excellent—they are tough and hold a sharp edge very well.

5th December 2023, 09:05 PM	#1
Marius66 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 103	Africans or dayak bronze hilted swords ? Hello guys, The seller told me these were two african small swords with bronze hilts But scabbards and the blade looks something ''indonesian ''to me or reminds me dayak swords blades. Heavy models, One seems to have a brass hilt Get them for a cheap price but I have to clean them, they were covered with mud ... Attached Images

8th December 2023, 08:34 PM	#10
Marius66 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 103	Good evening, I cleaned the blades and hilts , Interesting in the bagobo model without guard, we now can see a part of the wood hilt under the brass. For the blades, both really sharps, I cut myself twice while cleaning them 😁 I used vinegar , it darkened the blades but it don't seems there is a pattern, Maybe is it useful to sand the blades and use a better etchant ? Attached Images

8th December 2023, 08:38 PM	#11
Marius66 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 103	Here the knuckle guard and blade, I will soon clean the scabbards... Attached Images

21st May 2024, 11:59 PM	#14
wildwolberine Member Join Date: May 2023 Location: San Antonio Posts: 108	New Tboli tok/kafilan I’m the new owner of this nice-looking tok/kafilan. Looks to have some age? The scabbard retains some of the woven binding and the grass? component. Whatever ornaments were originally present on the hilt appear to be missing. Seller photos, will post this beauty when it arrives! Attached Images

23rd May 2024, 03:16 AM	#15
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 66	Tboli kefilan Wildwolberine, That’s a nice and very old Tboli kefilan. Terrific old scabbard as well, which I would identify as Blaan. Nice pick up and thanks for sharing. Best, Craig

5th December 2023, 09:34 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,111	Well, they are certainly not African, but they aren't Dayak either. I believe these come from the Philippines, more specifically Bagobo culture. One might consider them a form of Bagobo kampilan.

6th December 2023, 05:14 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,191	Hello Marius, As David has noted, these are from the southern Philippines. More specifically, they both come from the T'boli people of Cotobato Province in Mindanao. They are neighbors to several Lumad tribes (including the Bagobo and B'laan) as well as Maguindanao Muslims. Your example with the knuckle guard is probably of relatively recent manufacture, post-1970, while the other one is likely older. The scabbards are of typical T'boli shape; many have incised carvings of geometric shapes and are often wrapped in ikat (patterned woven fabric) for which the T'boli are famous. There are others on this forum who specialize in T'boli cultural artifacts and can give you more detailed information. You will find more about your swords by searching this Forum for other threads related to them. The T"boli call these swords tok or kafilan. The blades of these swords are generally very well forged, with good temper and hardened edge. You can see evidence of edge hardening in your pictures. These swords have some market value, so you may have made a good deal. Although we don't dicuss prices on the forum, you may PM people to gauge their current value.

6th December 2023, 12:17 PM	#4
Marius66 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 103	Thank's a lot for your messages and detailled answers !! I read that these blades were often laminated, I will try to see if that is the case and post pictures. Kind regards

7th December 2023, 12:32 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,191	David, I may have been a little hasty in saying both of these are T'boli. The one with the knuckle bow certainly is. The slightly shorter one has a hilt that might be Bagobo or B'laan. It is not the typical T'boli form. Both hilts appear to be cast from brass. Similarly, the larger scabbard is typically T'boli. The other one could be T'boli but might be Bagobo or B'laan too. The "tubes" protruding from the end of the scabbard are found on several Lumad scabbards. The shorter scabbard is otherwise rather non-descript with regard to which group it may have come from.

7th December 2023, 03:12 PM	#7
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 335	The one without the guard is Bagobo with a very nicely cast hilt and great scabbard. Nice score. The blade should etch nicely. I like the T'boli scabbard too.

8th December 2023, 12:41 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,191	Hi Jeff, The blade on the Bagobo hilted sword could be of T'boli manufacture. The T'boli blades are high quality and sought after. The Bagobo did use blades acquired from the T'boli because of their quality. This particular blade may have a heat quenched edge. Hard to tell without cleaning and etching.

23rd May 2024, 04:05 PM	#16
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,191	Hi WW, Nice old example. I agree with Craig, this one could well be B'laan, the people "over the hill" from the T'boli. BTW, the blades on these swords are excellent—they are tough and hold a sharp edge very well.