I think I have a Gunong?

zachsau72 · 12th July 2013, 02:03 AM

I am new to the forum and was hoping someone might be able to help me. I inherited a sword from my grandparents when they pasted away. I have been told it is a Moro Kris, but I was also told it is a Gunong/ Punal. My problem is that my sword does closley resembles a Gunong, but I have not found a picture of a Gunong or Punal that is not a dagger or knife. My sword is 29.5 inches long from the tip of the blade to the top of the hilt. Can anyone give me some clarification please, I would really appreciate it. Sorry like I said, I am a noobie. I am having trouble posting my picture, is there any way to upload attachments from an iPhone?

zachsau72 · 12th July 2013, 02:32 AM

I think I figured it out. Here is the picture of my sword. Does anybody know if it is a type of Gunong, and about when it might have been made?

Robert · 12th July 2013, 03:55 AM

Hello zachsau72 and welcome to the forum. I would say that your item is a gunong and would guess that it is WWII or later in age. Someone with more knowledge of dating these should be along shortly to give you more information.

Best,
Robert

David · 12th July 2013, 04:28 AM

From the pointiness of the curves of the blade i would put this quite a bit later than WWII. I'd say at least 1960s, probably later.

Battara · 12th July 2013, 05:50 AM

I agree wih David and would add that it is a later Moro kris wih a gunong hilt.

And welcome to our little forum!

David · 12th July 2013, 01:31 PM

Just curious José. What makes this a kris for you instead of simply an over-sized gunong. I know people have different takes on this, but for me a kris needs to have an asymmetric base and a gangya (separate or not). This has neither. For me a wavy blade is just that without these other features.

zachsau72 · 12th July 2013, 07:03 PM

That helps me so much, I was wondering if it could be a Kris/ Gunong hybrid. The age also makes sense, my grandparents lived in the Philipinnes in the late 60's to early 70's. Thank you all for your input and info. Does anyone have an idea how much it might be worth?

kai · 12th July 2013, 09:21 PM

I'm with David - regardless what this is referred to locally in modern times, this is not a Moro kris IMHO (for the reason's given). A huge, oversized Maranao gunong is obviously a sensible description.

Huge gunong seem to have been in vogue in Marawi since the 1970s or so. This must be one of the largest I've ever heard about though! Does anybody know wether these were really part of Maranao culture (as the large/huge gunong were post-WW2)? Or were they just curiosities/monstrosities akin to the over 1m long Moro kris or Keris Jawa/Madura?

Obviously, many of these large/huge gunong got also sold in Manila (and local) tourist shops.

Regards,
Kai

laEspadaAncha · 12th July 2013, 11:13 PM

I know the sharp undulations as seen on this particular example are generally indicative of a post-1950 attribution, but following Pershing's order outlawing the wearing of the kris (or swords in general?), didn't some gunongs morph and grow in size, and in some cases, were even made to bear an intentional resemblance to the kris?

David · 12th July 2013, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

I know the sharp undulations as seen on this particular example are generally indicative of a post-1950 attribution, but following Pershing's order outlawing the wearing of the kris (or swords in general?), didn't some gunongs morph and grow in size, and in some cases, were even made to bear an intentional resemblance to the kris?

Well, once a dagger grows big enough to be a sword, it IS a sword. I don't think simply calling a gunong that is this length just a dagger would carry much weight with Pershing's soldiers in regards to the ban. I would also think that logic holds that one would want to make a gunong look less like a kris if indeed kris have been banned. I mean, the more it looks like a kris the more likely you are to get in trouble for it, eh?

All the really big ones that i have seen seem to be post 1960s at the earliest. These over-sized gunongs mostly seem aimed at those who travel for pleasure. This isn't to say that there weren't some larger pre-WWII gunongs, but i would say it was the fashion until later. I'd say if you got 'em folks (older ones of great length), show 'em.

laEspadaAncha · 13th July 2013, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I would also think that logic holds that one would want to make a gunong look less like a kris if indeed kris have been banned.

Not for someone currently reponding to this thread who may or may not have an inherent problem with authority.

Battara · 13th July 2013, 04:52 AM

OK, perhaps I was a little liberal with my nomenclature. I guess it would be more an over sized gunong.

However, I have seen new 1960s krises with all the similar features but without a ganga and they are now also called krises.

I agree that this is not a true kris.

zachsau72 · 16th July 2013, 03:27 AM

I didn't mean to spark such a heated discussion, but I really appreciate all the knowledge and info. Thank you all very much. I take it that these"Huge Gunong" or "Gunong/ Kris", were not common practice. Does that make my sword rare and desirable or somewhat of a fake and a trinket?

Robert · 16th July 2013, 04:05 AM

Hello zachsau72,
My personal opinion on this piece is that it was made for those who travel (tourist) and is of little collector value. This is just my personal opinion and others might disagree with my evaluation. Sorry.

Best,
Robert

David · 16th July 2013, 04:30 AM

Oh Zachsau, this is hardly a "heated" debate for around here...

Actually i think we all mostly agree. These kind of pieces are basically made for the tourist market. This one might be a bit unusually long, but that doesn't make it particularly collectable. It will be a nice wall hanger though. Don't feel bad about this. As an inherited item this will forever be connected to you grandparents and hopefully good memories. That's worth more than any collectable antique is some ways.

12th July 2013, 02:03 AM	#1
zachsau72 Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4	I think I have a Gunong? I am new to the forum and was hoping someone might be able to help me. I inherited a sword from my grandparents when they pasted away. I have been told it is a Moro Kris, but I was also told it is a Gunong/ Punal. My problem is that my sword does closley resembles a Gunong, but I have not found a picture of a Gunong or Punal that is not a dagger or knife. My sword is 29.5 inches long from the tip of the blade to the top of the hilt. Can anyone give me some clarification please, I would really appreciate it. Sorry like I said, I am a noobie. I am having trouble posting my picture, is there any way to upload attachments from an iPhone?

12th July 2013, 02:32 AM	#2
zachsau72 Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4	Pictures of my sword I think I figured it out. Here is the picture of my sword. Does anybody know if it is a type of Gunong, and about when it might have been made? Attached Images

12th July 2013, 07:03 PM	#7
zachsau72 Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4	Thank you al That helps me so much, I was wondering if it could be a Kris/ Gunong hybrid. The age also makes sense, my grandparents lived in the Philipinnes in the late 60's to early 70's. Thank you all for your input and info. Does anyone have an idea how much it might be worth?

16th July 2013, 03:27 AM	#13
zachsau72 Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4	Huge Gunong I didn't mean to spark such a heated discussion, but I really appreciate all the knowledge and info. Thank you all very much. I take it that these"Huge Gunong" or "Gunong/ Kris", were not common practice. Does that make my sword rare and desirable or somewhat of a fake and a trinket?

12th July 2013, 03:55 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello zachsau72 and welcome to the forum. I would say that your item is a gunong and would guess that it is WWII or later in age. Someone with more knowledge of dating these should be along shortly to give you more information. Best, Robert

12th July 2013, 04:28 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	From the pointiness of the curves of the blade i would put this quite a bit later than WWII. I'd say at least 1960s, probably later.

12th July 2013, 05:50 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	I agree wih David and would add that it is a later Moro kris wih a gunong hilt. And welcome to our little forum!

12th July 2013, 01:31 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	Just curious José. What makes this a kris for you instead of simply an over-sized gunong. I know people have different takes on this, but for me a kris needs to have an asymmetric base and a gangya (separate or not). This has neither. For me a wavy blade is just that without these other features.

12th July 2013, 09:21 PM	#8
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	I'm with David - regardless what this is referred to locally in modern times, this is not a Moro kris IMHO (for the reason's given). A huge, oversized Maranao gunong is obviously a sensible description. Huge gunong seem to have been in vogue in Marawi since the 1970s or so. This must be one of the largest I've ever heard about though! Does anybody know wether these were really part of Maranao culture (as the large/huge gunong were post-WW2)? Or were they just curiosities/monstrosities akin to the over 1m long Moro kris or Keris Jawa/Madura? Obviously, many of these large/huge gunong got also sold in Manila (and local) tourist shops. Regards, Kai

12th July 2013, 11:13 PM	#9
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	I know the sharp undulations as seen on this particular example are generally indicative of a post-1950 attribution, but following Pershing's order outlawing the wearing of the kris (or swords in general?), didn't some gunongs morph and grow in size, and in some cases, were even made to bear an intentional resemblance to the kris?

13th July 2013, 04:52 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	OK, perhaps I was a little liberal with my nomenclature. I guess it would be more an over sized gunong. However, I have seen new 1960s krises with all the similar features but without a ganga and they are now also called krises. I agree that this is not a true kris.

16th July 2013, 04:05 AM	#14
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello zachsau72, My personal opinion on this piece is that it was made for those who travel (tourist) and is of little collector value. This is just my personal opinion and others might disagree with my evaluation. Sorry. Best, Robert

16th July 2013, 04:30 AM	#15
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	Oh Zachsau, this is hardly a "heated" debate for around here... Actually i think we all mostly agree. These kind of pieces are basically made for the tourist market. This one might be a bit unusually long, but that doesn't make it particularly collectable. It will be a nice wall hanger though. Don't feel bad about this. As an inherited item this will forever be connected to you grandparents and hopefully good memories. That's worth more than any collectable antique is some ways.