bronzes

JoeCanada42 · 10th January 2023, 06:29 AM

this piece has had me doing a lot of thinking, there is a lot of people here who are good with African historical knowledge so I though id share this

I find it is better quality then bastara or dhokra

Sotheby's is selling 3 dhokra figures online now for 750 one is similar to mine but much less detailed.

I figure mine is older, I found one more similar to mine.
I own the one with the axe and drum? fasces?

these are I believe from the Khond tribe,

I believe they have a lot of similarity with Benin bronzes

here are some crazy thought I had

is it possible African migrants spread their lost waxcasting method?
or did the Africans bring in a teacher from India
did the siddhis bring over the method? they did rule Bengal for a little bit, about the same time of the Benin bronze golden age.
perhaps other migrant peoples brought the method over and the religious beliefs. like how Santeria re emerged in the Americas, maybe old African religious beliefs came into cults in India aswell?
or even crazier did an individual even maybe a eunuch from India return to Africa and become the origin of cult stories etc.

I think the figure I own could represent Chango,
I find it interesting the names of African gods sound like the names or Hindu locations. there is more connections i have made but more outhere..

the Khond tribe did practice human sacrifice just like some Benin tribes.
traditionally these figures represent Hindu deities and the objects they wear and hold have symbolic meaning,
the figure I posted with the sickle I think would be Kali in one of her guises.
I also think the object she is holding in left, and the objects appearing in the hair of my figure(looks like umbrella), would be Soma, or a Mushroom, that woulda been mixed with milk etc, and used during the ceremonies.

anyone ever here about the shanga lion?

Anyone see something I am missing, or ideas I can look into. or any theories similar to mine outhere already I can read about?

I got many notes written everywhere from my research and i tried to pull it together into something like coherent questions?

thanks for reading any any input

JoeCanada42 · 12th January 2023, 01:18 AM

maybe the Chola empire spread Hindu Beleifs in its african colonies,?

colin henshaw · 12th January 2023, 02:46 PM

A most interesting topic, thanks for posting. Unfortunately, I know very little about these bronzes (made by Tribal, mainly Animist peoples in India, such as the Khonds), but would like to find out more. There were some Africans historically relocated to Western India as a result of the East African slave trade (Siddis), but not from West Africa, as far as I know. The famous Yao African "Sidi Bombay", companion to Victorian explorers Burton & Speke, spent time in India and could speak Hindi.

Looking on the internet, I see there is a book "Bastar Bronzes, Tribal Religion & Art" by Niranjan Mahawar, this might be a useful source of information and answer your questions.

Would be good to learn more in this subject...

JoeCanada42 · 12th January 2023, 11:50 PM

Thanks for the input, That actually seems like a really good book for the subject,
I will try to get my hands on it.

JoeCanada42 · 24th February 2023, 12:44 AM

unfortunately this book focuses on bronzes from Bastar, I would also like to see more from Bengal and Orissa regions.
I may have more to say about this piece in the future, I got a list already to research I see connections with a few different deities

10th January 2023, 06:29 AM	#1
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	bronzes this piece has had me doing a lot of thinking, there is a lot of people here who are good with African historical knowledge so I though id share this I find it is better quality then bastara or dhokra Sotheby's is selling 3 dhokra figures online now for 750 one is similar to mine but much less detailed. I figure mine is older, I found one more similar to mine. I own the one with the axe and drum? fasces? these are I believe from the Khond tribe, I believe they have a lot of similarity with Benin bronzes here are some crazy thought I had is it possible African migrants spread their lost waxcasting method? or did the Africans bring in a teacher from India did the siddhis bring over the method? they did rule Bengal for a little bit, about the same time of the Benin bronze golden age. perhaps other migrant peoples brought the method over and the religious beliefs. like how Santeria re emerged in the Americas, maybe old African religious beliefs came into cults in India aswell? or even crazier did an individual even maybe a eunuch from India return to Africa and become the origin of cult stories etc. I think the figure I own could represent Chango, I find it interesting the names of African gods sound like the names or Hindu locations. there is more connections i have made but more outhere.. the Khond tribe did practice human sacrifice just like some Benin tribes. traditionally these figures represent Hindu deities and the objects they wear and hold have symbolic meaning, the figure I posted with the sickle I think would be Kali in one of her guises. I also think the object she is holding in left, and the objects appearing in the hair of my figure(looks like umbrella), would be Soma, or a Mushroom, that woulda been mixed with milk etc, and used during the ceremonies. anyone ever here about the shanga lion? Anyone see something I am missing, or ideas I can look into. or any theories similar to mine outhere already I can read about? I got many notes written everywhere from my research and i tried to pull it together into something like coherent questions? thanks for reading any any input Attached Images

24th February 2023, 12:44 AM	#5
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	unfortunately this book focuses on bronzes from Bastar, I would also like to see more from Bengal and Orissa regions. I may have more to say about this piece in the future, I got a list already to research I see connections with a few different deities Attached Images

12th January 2023, 01:18 AM	#2
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	maybe the Chola empire spread Hindu Beleifs in its african colonies,?

12th January 2023, 02:46 PM	#3
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	A most interesting topic, thanks for posting. Unfortunately, I know very little about these bronzes (made by Tribal, mainly Animist peoples in India, such as the Khonds), but would like to find out more. There were some Africans historically relocated to Western India as a result of the East African slave trade (Siddis), but not from West Africa, as far as I know. The famous Yao African "Sidi Bombay", companion to Victorian explorers Burton & Speke, spent time in India and could speak Hindi. Looking on the internet, I see there is a book "Bastar Bronzes, Tribal Religion & Art" by Niranjan Mahawar, this might be a useful source of information and answer your questions. Would be good to learn more in this subject...

12th January 2023, 11:50 PM	#4
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Thanks for the input, That actually seems like a really good book for the subject, I will try to get my hands on it.