Shipment trouble from Czerny's (Auction #108 Dec 20)

Green · 25th March 2021, 12:19 PM

Dear all;

Did any of you that won keris or other types from Czerny's Auction in Mid December 20 have trouble receiving your items?

This is the first time Czerny's contract out shipping to other entity instead of handling themselves as in previous auctions. I never had problem before but this time, when the items were shipped (Fedex) it got stuck in Italy due to "documentation issues" and returned back to the sender. I have duly paid for CITES application to Czerny's as required and previously once we have this, there would be no issue in shipment.

Now it has been a month since this issue happened and I don't have any good explanation when the items will be sent to me.

Can anyone suggest what to do next?

David · 25th March 2021, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

Dear all;

Did any of you that won keris or other types from Czerny's Auction in Mid December 20 have trouble receiving your items?

This is the first time Czerny's contract out shipping to other entity instead of handling themselves as in previous auctions. I never had problem before but this time, when the items were shipped (Fedex) it got stuck in Italy due to "documentation issues" and returned back to the sender. I have duly paid for CITES application to Czerny's as required and previously once we have this, there would be no issue in shipment.

Now it has been a month since this issue happened and I don't have any good explanation when the items will be sent to me.

Can anyone suggest what to do next?

Since you needed a CITES application does than mean there were ivory parts involved?
Ultimately i would say Czerny is responsible for getting your item to you regardless of who they contract out to do the shipping. Can i assume you have a contact email for them? Have you tried contacting them. You don't say who you have been talking to when you say you have received no "good explanation" when the items will be sent. Czerny? Fedex? Customs officials?
Hard to know how to advise you further.

Green · 25th March 2021, 05:13 PM

David;

The explanation came from the shipper with this e mail address : shipping.czernys@gmail.com

I c.c my e mail to the International focal person at Czerny's but no response came from her.Natalia Kochetkova <natalia@czernys.com>

Here is a part of their explanation:

This explanation is obviously a general response to all the people that have the same problem I think because I certainly have not had any dealing with them as claimed in the explanation (see below) " As all perfectly know, we have shipped your lots at the requested address without any problem for the past 15 years..."

Dear client,

this email is meant to explain what is going on with your shipment.

As you may have noticed from the FedEx tracking number that we provided you, the shipment was sent back to sender, to us.

A sudden and unilaterally decided change in Federal Express policy in fact blocked exports of edged weapons along with a long list of commodity items that are now apparently defined as "dangerous goods" and therefore not exportable due to their general conditions of transport. Yes, out of the blue and we are still waiting for official explanations.

As all perfectly know, we have shipped your lots at the requested address without any problem for the past 15 years but unfortunately this decision does not depend in any way on our company, neither on Czerny's.

Because of this, for the time being, we are pushing with UPS to be able to send your lots as soon as possible, and we are willing to cover additional costs in your behalf, but it is obvious that all this process requires more time as we have to create and change all the attached documentation and we need to acquire different permits.

Jean · 25th March 2021, 07:05 PM

Well, this Fedex policy also applies to krisses exported from Indonesia for some time (since the advent of Covid 19) so it is not too surprising.
Czerny's promised to you to transfer the shipment to UPS and hopefully it will work but you will have to be patient, and in the worst case you can ask them to be reimbursed. Good luck!

kai · 25th March 2021, 07:11 PM

Hello Nik,

If I understand correctly, this is a glitch by FedEx who changed their rules without notice; they have been doing this before (in the US and elsewhere). Thus, the sender has to find another courier service willing and able to handle these pieces - and CITES as well as sharp/pointy thingies are a pain, even more so in Italy with it's very strict weapon laws (aimed against the Mafia but affecting all of us law-abiding citizens)! I'm sure they're working on finding a solution.

BTW, the local shipping company did already handle earlier Czerny's auctions and they just seem to have separated the billing process for shipping. Shipments within Europe arrived quickly as usual from what I've heard (after the other delay due to the late goverment approvals).

Regards,
Kai

Athanase · 26th March 2021, 01:02 AM

I bought 2 Keris and a Blawong at this sale, shipping took 1 additional month compared to the usual because of the Covid (the Italian administration is already slow at the base (like the French) but with the confinements it was even worse).
I don't remember the carrier, but it was a shipment within the EU and without ivory.

mariusgmioc · 26th March 2021, 05:44 AM

There is one thing shipping things within EU and a completely different thing shipping outside EU.

Ms. Kochetkova (who is an employee of Czerny's) explained the situation quite ckearly, in my opinion.

It wouldn't be the first time shipping companies change their policies overnight. And I for sure experienced similar problems with shippings from the US, Japan and Indonesia.

In this case I suggest you stay in touch with Czerny's and let them handle the problem. They are a reputed auction house and I am pretty sure they will solve the issue one way or another.

Green · 27th March 2021, 11:20 AM

What worries me a bit is that it has been about a month since the items were resent to sender and yet I have not received any update of when it will be send again to me (with new courier presumably). My last e mail a few days back to the shipper went unanswered.

I'm hoping for the best and trying to be optimistic. Hope they will sort it out very soon as my custom clearance permit will expire end of April.

mariusgmioc · 27th March 2021, 02:06 PM

What prevents you to ask Ms. Kochetkova to give you an update and an ETA?!

You, as the receiver of the parcel, don't have to worry about contacting the shipper. It is the sender's responsabilty and obligation to make sure you receive the goods you paid for!

So stop worrying and start acting! 😎👍

PS: You can also ask for a refund, but I would keep this as a last resort.

Green · 19th May 2021, 08:31 AM

i still have not receive my won items from Dec 8 2020 Czerny's auction!

Is there anyone living near Czerny's office that can help me? if so, please pm me.

I sent many e mails to the shipper that czerny's cantract out to ship items but I did not get any satisfactory answer from them apart from they telling that they are applying to get new documents. In fact the last two recent e mails were not even answered.

I also sent an e mail to natalia at czerny's and she responded by saying I need to contact the shipper.

The items were resent back by fedex to the shipper late feb but until now they can't sort out the issue yet?

Anthony G. · 19th May 2021, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

i still have not receive my won items from Dec 8 2020 Czerny's auction!

Is there anyone living near Czerny's office that can help me? if so, please pm me.

I sent many e mails to the shipper that czerny's cantract out to ship items but I did not get any satisfactory answer from them apart from they telling that they are applying to get new documents. In fact the last two recent e mails were not even answered.

I also sent an e mail to natalia at czerny's and she responded by saying I need to contact the shipper.

The items were resent back by fedex to the shipper late feb but until now they can't sort out the issue yet?

Sorry to hear about your predicament with the shipper and auction house. With your hindsight, I guess that this auction house is not for me. I also have similar issue until I shipped to a local friend within Europe and he helped me by shipping it to me from his home. A stroke of luck.

Green · 19th May 2021, 11:26 AM

Thanks Anthony G;

Actually that is one of my last option. To ask them to send to a European address of a friend and he will send this to me. Hope that they still have my package and not lost it somehow.

But I guess I will wait a bit longer and hope they will respond and give update and pray that they can resend them again (without trouble this time).

kai · 19th May 2021, 12:25 PM

Hello Nik,

I certainly understand your frustration!

However, after the delay due to the late goverment approvals due to changes in their processes, we have to realize that this additional delay was caused by FedEx by changing their rules without prior notice!

I'm sure they would have contacted you immediately in case the shipment would have been lost by FedEx and are working on finding a solution.

Due to anti-Mafia measures, there's lots of bureaucracy in Italy with anything remotely related to weapons, even if obsolete. Bureaucracy hardly ever is implemented to make your life easier; if it works, it helps to make your life a bit safer though...

Don't be too hard on the shipping folks and keep the English simple.

Regards,
Kai

David · 19th May 2021, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

I also sent an e mail to natalia at czerny's and she responded by saying I need to contact the shipper.

I have to say that i find this response disturbing. Your dealing has been with the auction house and you did not choose your own shipping, did you? Czerny should accept responsibility for this. They contracted out the shipping and they are responsible for ensuring that you receive the item that you paid them for.

mariusgmioc · 19th May 2021, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I have to say that i find this response disturbing. Your dealing has been with the auction house and you did not choose your own shipping, did you? Czerny should accept responsibility for this. They contracted out the shipping and they are responsible for ensuring that you receive the item that you paid them for.

Exactly! David is absolutely right!

The responsibility over shipping falls to the one paying for it. They and only they have legal leverage to address the shipper.

You did not choose the shipper, did not pay for it and have absolutely no leverage to address them regarding the issue. You paid Czerny's to send the items to you and that's their responsibility and theirs alone.

The response from Czerny's absolutely unacceptable.

I should immediately ask for a full refund (I sent you a private message with more detailed information).

PS: I had issues with damaged items received from Czerny's and they were all resolved quickly and professionally so I am very surprised and disappointed by your experience.

kai · 19th May 2021, 10:58 PM

Hello Marius,

As of this very auction, the shipping expenses are paid directly to the shipping company (separately invoiced from the auction results). Thus, the recipient does enter a separate contract with the shipper and the shipper is the contact point for any shipping problems.

Without being apologetic, I'm sure though that Czerny's is interested in things going smoothly and will look into improving any processes that continue resulting in any problems. As mentioned, the bureaucracy combined with limiting resources due to the ongoing pandemic will result in problems not commonly experienced.

Experiences with shipping overseas during the pandemic seem to vary widely, including parcels shipped by consumers as well as B2B transfers.

Regards,
Kai

Will M · 20th May 2021, 01:42 AM

I've previously had the same issue with a sword coming from the UK to Canada. I waited a month while tracking the package. Apparently tracking shows movement to Canada but I have learned it is only the electronic paperwork!!
I had to call them to get them to return to sender as it sat in limbo! It was still in a UK warehouse!
The company had their own weapons policy, not law and refused to ship and failed to contact the sender..
The sword finally arrived after 3 months! A little nerve wracking when it's a very special item.
Most items I have received of late are sent DHL.
I find many packers just pick a shipper without knowledge of their restrictions.
I believe the Fedex restriction is not new.
It's best to ask the packers to ship using the shipper you request.
The real problem is we are not dealing with intelligent people.

Anthony G. · 20th May 2021, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

I've previously had the same issue with a sword coming from the UK to Canada. I waited a month while tracking the package. Apparently tracking shows movement to Canada but I have learned it is only the electronic paperwork!!
I had to call them to get them to return to sender as it sat in limbo! It was still in a UK warehouse!
The company had their own weapons policy, not law and refused to ship and failed to contact the sender..
The sword finally arrived after 3 months! A little nerve wracking when it's a very special item.
Most items I have received of late are sent DHL.
I find many packers just pick a shipper without knowledge of their restrictions.
I believe the Fedex restriction is not new.
It's best to ask the packers to ship using the shipper you request.
The real problem is we are not dealing with intelligent people.

//quote//
The real problem is we are not dealing with intelligent people.

I second to that statement as per above quote. Sometimes I got so fed-up that almost called them aka the logistic company stupid over the phone and email. I have to teach UPS how to apply the permit. faint.........

David · 20th May 2021, 04:16 AM

Gentlemen, the moderation staff thinks this thread has gone about as far as it can in regards to any more useful information on this subject. Hopefully this will all sort itself out over time. Best of luck to all waiting for deliveries from these auctions.

27th March 2021, 02:06 PM	#9
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	What prevents you to ask Ms. Kochetkova to give you an update and an ETA?! You, as the receiver of the parcel, don't have to worry about contacting the shipper. It is the sender's responsabilty and obligation to make sure you receive the goods you paid for! So stop worrying and start acting! 😎👍 PS: You can also ask for a refund, but I would keep this as a last resort. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 27th March 2021 at 02:49 PM.

25th March 2021, 12:19 PM	#1
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	Shipment trouble from Czerny's (Auction #108 Dec 20) Dear all; Did any of you that won keris or other types from Czerny's Auction in Mid December 20 have trouble receiving your items? This is the first time Czerny's contract out shipping to other entity instead of handling themselves as in previous auctions. I never had problem before but this time, when the items were shipped (Fedex) it got stuck in Italy due to "documentation issues" and returned back to the sender. I have duly paid for CITES application to Czerny's as required and previously once we have this, there would be no issue in shipment. Now it has been a month since this issue happened and I don't have any good explanation when the items will be sent to me. Can anyone suggest what to do next?

25th March 2021, 05:13 PM	#3
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	David; The explanation came from the shipper with this e mail address : shipping.czernys@gmail.com I c.c my e mail to the International focal person at Czerny's but no response came from her.Natalia Kochetkova <natalia@czernys.com> Here is a part of their explanation: This explanation is obviously a general response to all the people that have the same problem I think because I certainly have not had any dealing with them as claimed in the explanation (see below) " As all perfectly know, we have shipped your lots at the requested address without any problem for the past 15 years..." Dear client, this email is meant to explain what is going on with your shipment. As you may have noticed from the FedEx tracking number that we provided you, the shipment was sent back to sender, to us. A sudden and unilaterally decided change in Federal Express policy in fact blocked exports of edged weapons along with a long list of commodity items that are now apparently defined as "dangerous goods" and therefore not exportable due to their general conditions of transport. Yes, out of the blue and we are still waiting for official explanations. As all perfectly know, we have shipped your lots at the requested address without any problem for the past 15 years but unfortunately this decision does not depend in any way on our company, neither on Czerny's. Because of this, for the time being, we are pushing with UPS to be able to send your lots as soon as possible, and we are willing to cover additional costs in your behalf, but it is obvious that all this process requires more time as we have to create and change all the attached documentation and we need to acquire different permits.

25th March 2021, 07:05 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Well, this Fedex policy also applies to krisses exported from Indonesia for some time (since the advent of Covid 19) so it is not too surprising. Czerny's promised to you to transfer the shipment to UPS and hopefully it will work but you will have to be patient, and in the worst case you can ask them to be reimbursed. Good luck!

25th March 2021, 07:11 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Nik, If I understand correctly, this is a glitch by FedEx who changed their rules without notice; they have been doing this before (in the US and elsewhere). Thus, the sender has to find another courier service willing and able to handle these pieces - and CITES as well as sharp/pointy thingies are a pain, even more so in Italy with it's very strict weapon laws (aimed against the Mafia but affecting all of us law-abiding citizens)! I'm sure they're working on finding a solution. BTW, the local shipping company did already handle earlier Czerny's auctions and they just seem to have separated the billing process for shipping. Shipments within Europe arrived quickly as usual from what I've heard (after the other delay due to the late goverment approvals). Regards, Kai

26th March 2021, 01:02 AM	#6
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	I bought 2 Keris and a Blawong at this sale, shipping took 1 additional month compared to the usual because of the Covid (the Italian administration is already slow at the base (like the French) but with the confinements it was even worse). I don't remember the carrier, but it was a shipment within the EU and without ivory.

26th March 2021, 05:44 AM	#7
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	There is one thing shipping things within EU and a completely different thing shipping outside EU. Ms. Kochetkova (who is an employee of Czerny's) explained the situation quite ckearly, in my opinion. It wouldn't be the first time shipping companies change their policies overnight. And I for sure experienced similar problems with shippings from the US, Japan and Indonesia. In this case I suggest you stay in touch with Czerny's and let them handle the problem. They are a reputed auction house and I am pretty sure they will solve the issue one way or another.

27th March 2021, 11:20 AM	#8
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	What worries me a bit is that it has been about a month since the items were resent to sender and yet I have not received any update of when it will be send again to me (with new courier presumably). My last e mail a few days back to the shipper went unanswered. I'm hoping for the best and trying to be optimistic. Hope they will sort it out very soon as my custom clearance permit will expire end of April.

19th May 2021, 08:31 AM	#10
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	i still have not receive my won items from Dec 8 2020 Czerny's auction! Is there anyone living near Czerny's office that can help me? if so, please pm me. I sent many e mails to the shipper that czerny's cantract out to ship items but I did not get any satisfactory answer from them apart from they telling that they are applying to get new documents. In fact the last two recent e mails were not even answered. I also sent an e mail to natalia at czerny's and she responded by saying I need to contact the shipper. The items were resent back by fedex to the shipper late feb but until now they can't sort out the issue yet?

19th May 2021, 11:26 AM	#12
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	Thanks Anthony G; Actually that is one of my last option. To ask them to send to a European address of a friend and he will send this to me. Hope that they still have my package and not lost it somehow. But I guess I will wait a bit longer and hope they will respond and give update and pray that they can resend them again (without trouble this time).

19th May 2021, 12:25 PM	#13
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Nik, I certainly understand your frustration! However, after the delay due to the late goverment approvals due to changes in their processes, we have to realize that this additional delay was caused by FedEx by changing their rules without prior notice! I'm sure they would have contacted you immediately in case the shipment would have been lost by FedEx and are working on finding a solution. Due to anti-Mafia measures, there's lots of bureaucracy in Italy with anything remotely related to weapons, even if obsolete. Bureaucracy hardly ever is implemented to make your life easier; if it works, it helps to make your life a bit safer though... Don't be too hard on the shipping folks and keep the English simple. Regards, Kai

19th May 2021, 10:58 PM	#16
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Marius, As of this very auction, the shipping expenses are paid directly to the shipping company (separately invoiced from the auction results). Thus, the recipient does enter a separate contract with the shipper and the shipper is the contact point for any shipping problems. Without being apologetic, I'm sure though that Czerny's is interested in things going smoothly and will look into improving any processes that continue resulting in any problems. As mentioned, the bureaucracy combined with limiting resources due to the ongoing pandemic will result in problems not commonly experienced. Experiences with shipping overseas during the pandemic seem to vary widely, including parcels shipped by consumers as well as B2B transfers. Regards, Kai

20th May 2021, 01:42 AM	#17
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I've previously had the same issue with a sword coming from the UK to Canada. I waited a month while tracking the package. Apparently tracking shows movement to Canada but I have learned it is only the electronic paperwork!! I had to call them to get them to return to sender as it sat in limbo! It was still in a UK warehouse! The company had their own weapons policy, not law and refused to ship and failed to contact the sender.. The sword finally arrived after 3 months! A little nerve wracking when it's a very special item. Most items I have received of late are sent DHL. I find many packers just pick a shipper without knowledge of their restrictions. I believe the Fedex restriction is not new. It's best to ask the packers to ship using the shipper you request. The real problem is we are not dealing with intelligent people.

20th May 2021, 04:16 AM	#19
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	Gentlemen, the moderation staff thinks this thread has gone about as far as it can in regards to any more useful information on this subject. Hopefully this will all sort itself out over time. Best of luck to all waiting for deliveries from these auctions.