Lime juice versus alum.

Jens Nordlunde · 6th January 2005, 05:28 PM

I remember a discussion some time ago, about how to show the different damascene patterns in blades.
Everything - or almost everything - was suggested, from different fruit juices to ferric chloride – and all what is in between. I have no doubt that it all will work, but what did the Indians use?
T.H.Hendley writes lime, which sounds like a good place to start, others are a bit more cloak an dagger about it, but in an old catalogue from the State Museum, Hyderabad the author M.L.Nigam writes: ‘The last stage was to bring out the grain or ‘Jauhar’ by applying thin powder or solution of alum or saltpetre (potassium nitrate).
Have any of you used alum of saltpetre?
If yes, how do you do it, and is it very strong – fast working?

Regards

Jens

Battara · 7th January 2005, 02:35 AM

Actually I have used alum on a kard and it does being out the little subtlties. It is still in progress. What I do is have a dish with a little water and a lot more alum until it becomes a watery paste, heat the mixture, and apply with a brush or rag (use distilled water). It will take lots of time, but the results are interesting. Water and alum make a weak acid. Hope this helps. I would only use this with wootz from India or Persia.

Jens Nordlunde · 7th January 2005, 10:04 AM

Thank you for your answer. You write that the result is interesting; in what way do you mean this?
If it gives a weak acid, this means that it is easier to control, but takes longer time than if you use ferric chloride. Have you tried with salpeter?
BTW Francoise Bernier, a Frenchman travelling in India around 1650 writes, that they, in order to keep the water cold when it is hot, put a handful or two of saltpetre in the water. Maybe it cools the water, but I wonder how healthy it is to drink the water.

Regards

Jens

Spunjer · 7th January 2005, 05:13 PM

jens,

when i was going thru basic training in the military, there where rumors going on that we were being administered saltpeter during breakfast. you see, saltpeter is the antithesis of viagra...

Jens Nordlunde · 7th January 2005, 05:45 PM

Hi Spunjer,

Did it help

?

Jens

Spunjer · 7th January 2005, 05:59 PM

i was too traumatized to pay attention, lol

Battara · 8th January 2005, 10:18 PM

No, Jens, I never used saltpeter. What I have done is heat both solution and blade. This seems to speed up the process a little and still makes it quite controllable.

Jens Nordlunde · 8th January 2005, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

No, Jens, I never used saltpeter. What I have done is heat both solution and blade. This seems to speed up the process a little and still makes it quite controllable.

Did I say you did - then I am sorry - I thought it was Spunjer

On SFI Lodewijk warns about salpetre, that it is very fast working.

Regards

Jens

ariel · 9th January 2005, 06:21 AM

There was an urban legend in the military that in the middle of a battle somebody emptied the tea urn on the cannon to cool it; the barrel bent down.....

6th January 2005, 05:28 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Lime juice versus alum. I remember a discussion some time ago, about how to show the different damascene patterns in blades. Everything - or almost everything - was suggested, from different fruit juices to ferric chloride – and all what is in between. I have no doubt that it all will work, but what did the Indians use? T.H.Hendley writes lime, which sounds like a good place to start, others are a bit more cloak an dagger about it, but in an old catalogue from the State Museum, Hyderabad the author M.L.Nigam writes: ‘The last stage was to bring out the grain or ‘Jauhar’ by applying thin powder or solution of alum or saltpetre (potassium nitrate). Have any of you used alum of saltpetre? If yes, how do you do it, and is it very strong – fast working? Regards Jens

7th January 2005, 02:35 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Actually I have used alum on a kard and it does being out the little subtlties. It is still in progress. What I do is have a dish with a little water and a lot more alum until it becomes a watery paste, heat the mixture, and apply with a brush or rag (use distilled water). It will take lots of time, but the results are interesting. Water and alum make a weak acid. Hope this helps. I would only use this with wootz from India or Persia.

7th January 2005, 10:04 AM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thank you for your answer. You write that the result is interesting; in what way do you mean this? If it gives a weak acid, this means that it is easier to control, but takes longer time than if you use ferric chloride. Have you tried with salpeter? BTW Francoise Bernier, a Frenchman travelling in India around 1650 writes, that they, in order to keep the water cold when it is hot, put a handful or two of saltpetre in the water. Maybe it cools the water, but I wonder how healthy it is to drink the water. Regards Jens

7th January 2005, 05:13 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	jens, when i was going thru basic training in the military, there where rumors going on that we were being administered saltpeter during breakfast. you see, saltpeter is the antithesis of viagra...

7th January 2005, 05:45 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Spunjer, Did it help ? Jens

7th January 2005, 05:59 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	i was too traumatized to pay attention, lol

8th January 2005, 10:18 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	No, Jens, I never used saltpeter. What I have done is heat both solution and blade. This seems to speed up the process a little and still makes it quite controllable.

9th January 2005, 06:21 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	There was an urban legend in the military that in the middle of a battle somebody emptied the tea urn on the cannon to cool it; the barrel bent down.....