WW1-WW2 kindjal ? Stamp/Signature on the blade

francantolin · 22nd October 2021, 07:15 PM

Hello dear members,

I wanted to show you the kindjal I just received,
I don't think it's an old piece but it's authentic,
made for use, not just a deco-glory piece.

A nice bone or ivory piece on one side of the hilt,
backside is horn.

The scabbard is interesting with his back brown leather piece and the leather passing through the iron suspension piece,
the final tip is not original.

The leather parts looks 20th century for me,
a military ''look''
but nothing to compare with regular army beibut dagger swords...

There is a signature on the blade ( arabic script ??)
so it must be a caucasian origin (?)

What do you think ?

Kind regards

francantolin · 23rd October 2021, 07:46 PM

Hello,
not a big success

I found that the back brown leather structure was made for a small side knife

francantolin · 23rd October 2021, 07:47 PM

For the moment, I'll place my Mont-Blanc pen or my toothbrush

Gonzoadler · 23rd October 2021, 10:33 PM

Hello,

the blade is in my opinion definitely Dagestani, the shape, the fullers and the kind of marking are typical for that reagion. If the complete piece is from Dagestan is difficult to say because of the absence of any decor.
I don't think that it was made especially for military use. For me, your Kindjal was made in the time between 1890 and 1920.
The bone doesn't looks like ivory, but there are detail pictures necessary to assess that.
Such undecorated Kindjals are not so uncommon, I often have seen them on pictures. But it is difficult to say where they were carried.

Regards
Robin

Edster · 23rd October 2021, 10:40 PM

This is a tough one for me. The black panel is likely a replacement. The first part of the blade mark is the Arabic letter Jiim. The second one doesn't match anything I've seen. The folded leather piece that attaches the other leather to the metal piece of the scabbard is remindful of how the Russians attached their rifle slings. I read on the Forum they learned it from someone else, but can't recall. Likely from the Muslim part of the Caucasus. Hopefully, someone else will chime in who has some real knowledge.

Edit (Thanks Robin for your ID. I'll support Dagestan at where it was made. You posted while I was writing.)

Regards,
Ed

Oliver Pinchot · 24th October 2021, 05:53 AM

It's the maker's name. It reads, HAJI.

It's likely Tiflis (Tbilisi) work. Gonzoadler's dating of 1890-1920 is reasonable. However, 1920s-1930s is probably closer.
The grips are potentially antler, bone, or ivory with horn on the reverse. antler and horn. The leather is original and the
suspension tab is rather rare. All in all a nice example that survives in very good shape.

francantolin · 24th October 2021, 05:52 PM

Hello,

Thank you all for your precisions/ precious informations and comments,
I was not that wrong with my estimation between WW1 and WW2

Thank's a lot for the translation !!

I'll post close pictures of the ''ivory'' ''Bone'' hilt maybe it can help to fix it.

For the final tip I'll find a small ivory or bone ball to set,
I saw some kindjal with such a piece...

Kind regards

22nd October 2021, 07:15 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	WW1-WW2 kindjal ? Stamp/Signature on the blade Hello dear members, I wanted to show you the kindjal I just received, I don't think it's an old piece but it's authentic, made for use, not just a deco-glory piece. A nice bone or ivory piece on one side of the hilt, backside is horn. The scabbard is interesting with his back brown leather piece and the leather passing through the iron suspension piece, the final tip is not original. The leather parts looks 20th century for me, a military ''look'' but nothing to compare with regular army beibut dagger swords... There is a signature on the blade ( arabic script ??) so it must be a caucasian origin (?) What do you think ? Kind regards Attached Images

23rd October 2021, 07:46 PM	#2
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Hello, not a big success I found that the back brown leather structure was made for a small side knife

23rd October 2021, 07:47 PM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	For the moment, I'll place my Mont-Blanc pen or my toothbrush

23rd October 2021, 10:33 PM	#4
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 244	Hello, the blade is in my opinion definitely Dagestani, the shape, the fullers and the kind of marking are typical for that reagion. If the complete piece is from Dagestan is difficult to say because of the absence of any decor. I don't think that it was made especially for military use. For me, your Kindjal was made in the time between 1890 and 1920. The bone doesn't looks like ivory, but there are detail pictures necessary to assess that. Such undecorated Kindjals are not so uncommon, I often have seen them on pictures. But it is difficult to say where they were carried. Regards Robin

23rd October 2021, 10:40 PM	#5
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	This is a tough one for me. The black panel is likely a replacement. The first part of the blade mark is the Arabic letter Jiim. The second one doesn't match anything I've seen. The folded leather piece that attaches the other leather to the metal piece of the scabbard is remindful of how the Russians attached their rifle slings. I read on the Forum they learned it from someone else, but can't recall. Likely from the Muslim part of the Caucasus. Hopefully, someone else will chime in who has some real knowledge. Edit (Thanks Robin for your ID. I'll support Dagestan at where it was made. You posted while I was writing.) Regards, Ed

24th October 2021, 05:53 AM	#6
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	It's the maker's name. It reads, HAJI. It's likely Tiflis (Tbilisi) work. Gonzoadler's dating of 1890-1920 is reasonable. However, 1920s-1930s is probably closer. The grips are potentially antler, bone, or ivory with horn on the reverse. antler and horn. The leather is original and the suspension tab is rather rare. All in all a nice example that survives in very good shape.

24th October 2021, 05:52 PM	#7
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Hello, Thank you all for your precisions/ precious informations and comments, I was not that wrong with my estimation between WW1 and WW2 Thank's a lot for the translation !! I'll post close pictures of the ''ivory'' ''Bone'' hilt maybe it can help to fix it. For the final tip I'll find a small ivory or bone ball to set, I saw some kindjal with such a piece... Kind regards