Caino weapon

Cotoroanta · 30th December 2023, 08:48 PM

Hello and respect for all members. I need a little help for a weapon from my collection that I don't know what kind is: stiletto, misericordia or rapier. The size is 47 cm , 33 cm only the blade. He has the marks of Caino town but I don't know the mark of the swordsmith it is a crown with an M and C. I don't know if it is for sure Pietro Caino

Jim McDougall · 31st December 2023, 02:27 PM

This is of course a stiletto (it lacks the side ring typically on left hand daggers) but of most curious character with cast brass hilt , turned wood(?) grip and unusual cabachons. I would wonder if this is perhaps a theatrically oriented item using what appears to be an authentic Milanese blade c. 1600, and likely in such case a Victorian period creation. The use of authentic blades in well fashioned reproduction arms was well known in these times.

The boldly stamped CAINO along with crowned M over what should be an S suggests this could be a blade from the famed Pietro Caino of Milan, who worked c. 1580-1610. He did apparently produce left hand daggers (Mann, Wallace Coll. p.266) and the marking 'three bends' (?) is noted. I wonder if this refers to the saltires (x's) as seen here.
I would note that the adjoining stamps such as star and other flanking the crowned M S (or C) here as well as the arc with orbs at each end suggest to me these are authentically placed marks...the kinds of nuances not typically accompanying spurious markings.

There was also a Francesco Caino of Brescia (mentioned in the Cicogna treatise 1567) who seems to have been significant, but what markings he used are unclear.
It is noted that CAINO was also a prolific blade making town in NE Brescia in the 17th c. which was under the control of Venice.

Whatever the circumstances of the curious 'incarnation' of this 'stiletto' it does seem this is likely an authentic blade, quite possibly from the shop of Pietro....but certainly in the 'Caino sphere' of end of 16th c. into early 17th.

Cotoroanta · 31st December 2023, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This is of course a stiletto (it lacks the side ring typically on left hand daggers) but of most curious character with cast brass hilt , turned wood(?) grip and unusual cabachons. I would wonder if this is perhaps a theatrically oriented item using what appears to be an authentic Milanese blade c. 1600, and likely in such case a Victorian period creation. The use of authentic blades in well fashioned reproduction arms was well known in these times...

Thank you for the answer I know that the swordsmiths from Caino made weapons for many people from different country from Europe I wonder what kind of coat of arms is the quatrefoil that apears in the crown in 8 parts and the lilys with a different form up on the crown like in the photos. Also the up part of the crown has a secret place where has a strong smell that I think it was for poison.

Raf · 1st January 2024, 08:14 PM

Looks to me like a Lebel bayonet.

cornelistromp · 2nd January 2024, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotoroanta

Hello and respect for all members. I need a little help for a weapon from my collection that I don't know what kind is: stiletto, misericordia or rapier. The size is 47 cm , 33 cm only the blade. He has the marks of Caino town but I don't know the mark of the swordsmith it is a crown with an M and C. I don't know if it is for sure Pietro Caino

all the weapons you have recently posted seem recently made to me and all from the same workshop.
very creative but it has nothing to do with original weapons, do you make these yourself and for what purpose?

Jim McDougall · 2nd January 2024, 07:07 PM

A secret place for poison......SURELY this MUST be a Borgia stilletto!
I still think this blade MIGHT be authentic, the markings are pretty convincing.......but being among this stable of weapons being presented en masse, it is hard to imagine what became of the rest of the original rapier.

Gavin Nugent · 3rd January 2024, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raf

Looks to me like a Lebel bayonet.

I agree... nothing about the piece says old world stiletto, rapier of dagger at all!

I could critic the workmanship and 6 aspects I see at face value as being incorrect, but I don't wish to encourage the manufacture of these types of modern backroom knockoffs....

fernando · 3rd January 2024, 02:43 PM

Threads closed in view of author's attempt to enquire on countless pieces still in active commercial venues.

-

30th December 2023, 08:48 PM	#1
Cotoroanta Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Posts: 23	Caino weapon Hello and respect for all members. I need a little help for a weapon from my collection that I don't know what kind is: stiletto, misericordia or rapier. The size is 47 cm , 33 cm only the blade. He has the marks of Caino town but I don't know the mark of the swordsmith it is a crown with an M and C. I don't know if it is for sure Pietro Caino Attached Images

1st January 2024, 08:14 PM	#4
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Looks to me like a Lebel bayonet. Attached Images

3rd January 2024, 02:43 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Threads closed in view of author's attempt to enquire on countless pieces still in active commercial venues. - Last edited by fernando; 3rd January 2024 at 06:09 PM.

31st December 2023, 02:27 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	This is of course a stiletto (it lacks the side ring typically on left hand daggers) but of most curious character with cast brass hilt , turned wood(?) grip and unusual cabachons. I would wonder if this is perhaps a theatrically oriented item using what appears to be an authentic Milanese blade c. 1600, and likely in such case a Victorian period creation. The use of authentic blades in well fashioned reproduction arms was well known in these times. The boldly stamped CAINO along with crowned M over what should be an S suggests this could be a blade from the famed Pietro Caino of Milan, who worked c. 1580-1610. He did apparently produce left hand daggers (Mann, Wallace Coll. p.266) and the marking 'three bends' (?) is noted. I wonder if this refers to the saltires (x's) as seen here. I would note that the adjoining stamps such as star and other flanking the crowned M S (or C) here as well as the arc with orbs at each end suggest to me these are authentically placed marks...the kinds of nuances not typically accompanying spurious markings. There was also a Francesco Caino of Brescia (mentioned in the Cicogna treatise 1567) who seems to have been significant, but what markings he used are unclear. It is noted that CAINO was also a prolific blade making town in NE Brescia in the 17th c. which was under the control of Venice. Whatever the circumstances of the curious 'incarnation' of this 'stiletto' it does seem this is likely an authentic blade, quite possibly from the shop of Pietro....but certainly in the 'Caino sphere' of end of 16th c. into early 17th.

2nd January 2024, 07:07 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	A secret place for poison......SURELY this MUST be a Borgia stilletto! I still think this blade MIGHT be authentic, the markings are pretty convincing.......but being among this stable of weapons being presented en masse, it is hard to imagine what became of the rest of the original rapier.