Very Unusual Kampilan

wilked aka Khun Deng · 21st January 2005, 04:26 PM

Once again my thanks go out to Ian without who I assuredly would not have found this blade.

What struck us right off was the unusual pommel design and a two slab pegged scabbard design that I had not seen before.

The dealer said it was Maranao probably from the Lake Lanao region (currently a hotbed of Abu Sayyaf activity) but I don't know enough yet to make that call.

This one, after conservation, proved to be completely orginal, no apparent repairs or redressing even down to the wooden pegged one-side-open scabbard (although it did appear to have been restained at one time).

Before conservation

wilked aka Khun Deng · 21st January 2005, 04:31 PM

And again after conservation.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/wilked/Philippines/Picture028.jpg
[/IMG]

Still some red hair stuck in the dowels when I pulled one out!

And a shot in relation to the stove to show the size of this puppy!

Educate me!

mmontoro · 21st January 2005, 04:45 PM

Wow. That hilt with the swept pommel is great. Thanks for posting that.

Rick · 21st January 2005, 10:56 PM

Quite an interesting pommel !
Sea Eagle , Makara , Naga , I can't seem to decide which form it is .
The crossguard too is a very interesting shape .

Just my preference but I liked the crusty old finish , then again you can see more carving detail now .

Outstanding example Dan !

I'll bet this one feels good in your hand .

Mark · 21st January 2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Quite an interesting pommel !
Sea Eagle , Makara , Naga , I can't seem to decide which form it is .
The crossguard too is a very interesting shape .

Just my preference but I liked the crusty old finish , then again you can see more carving detail now .

Outstanding example Dan !

I'll bet this one feels good in your hand .

Looking at it in the photo, it looks like a parrot, but turning it upside-down it looks like Sam the American Eagle with a really severe underbite (and big round cheek guards)!

Rick · 22nd January 2005, 12:10 AM

How about some top and edge pics of this hilt .
Is it pierced .

I have always wondered from which perspective these hilts should be viewed ' I'm guessing that it is working edge down .
(please pardon my futzing with your image)

It looks almost like an opening plant or flower .
Is that a metal insert in the circle ?
I love kampilan , I think they're the most lethal sword in the panoply of Moro edged weapons .
They are also uniquely different from all other Moro swords .

Battara · 22nd January 2005, 01:10 AM

Ian has a really good eye for PI stuff. He got a spear last year from Artzi 5 minutes before I got there to buy the same piece! (grumble, grumble, envy, envy

).

I especially like the carving of the eagle/parrot - ornate and not modern. Very unique. Congratulations (more envying, more grumbling

).

Andrew · 22nd January 2005, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Ian has a really good eye for PI stuff. He got a spear last year from Artzi 5 minutes before I got there to buy the same piece! (grumble, grumble, envy, envy

).

It's not just the PI stuff, Jose. Much to my chagrine.

Very nice kampilan, Dan! I really like the carvings. Beautiful.

Federico · 22nd January 2005, 05:48 AM

I wonder if the hilt is a re-carve of an original much larger kampilan pommel (an example of large pommel kampilan is in Bob's book), due to the placement of the "eye". It is somewhat lopsided in its placement, and the bottom lines are somewhat abrupt, which makes me wonder about it being a recarve. Definitely if it is, it was done long ago, and with great care. The hilt wrap was re-done, seemingly long ago, but also does not appear original. Beautiful blade, and it looks like it is hiding a very wonderful pattern. Will be interesting to see it after etching. I love the wire staples. Anyways, if you are interested in re-doing the hair, bamboo chopsticks make great plugs, and horse hair extensions (for show ponies) are readily available in black. Dont like the bright red hair sold for Chinese weapons, and black hair is just as traditional (typically even in kampilans with red hair, it would be interspersed with plain black, but many just had black hair).

zelbone · 22nd January 2005, 09:33 AM

WOW!!! That is truly a unique and rare kampilan. The pommel is truly nothing I've seen before. The carving is well executed! Not only do you have a unique pommel, but you have a scabbard and a crossguard with handguard/staples on BOTH sides...rare on both accounts. This is truly a unique find. The blade looks like it is in pretty good shape and, as Federico noticed, is probably hiding a nice pattern.

I was also wondering as well if the pommel is a recarve, but then there wouldn't be enough material there if the original pommel was your typical kampilan swallow's tail/croccodile jaw form. But as Federico mentions, if it was a re-carve, then the only form possible with enough material to re-carve from would be one of those ultra-rare kampilan hilt forms that Cato mentions in his book and is pictured there as well. I've never actually seen one of those forms, but the picture in the book where the Moro retainer has it resting on his shoulder shows how massive it is. If I remember right, these kampilans were more ceremonial than actually usable. If indeed this example is a recarve of one of those massive rare forms, it was probably done to lighten the weight of the pommel and to make it a more viable weapon.

In any case, the pommel is truly unique whether it's original or a recarve (it does kind of look like a parrot

.) That and the fact that it has double-handguards and a complete scabbard makes this quite a rare and unique kampilan. Excellent find!!!

Now don't go buy every unique sword while your in the Philippine, Dan!!! Save some for us

!!!

tom hyle · 22nd January 2005, 02:24 PM

Looks 100% like a bird to me. Very stylized certainly, but if any other animal has eyes and beak in relation like that it can only be a turtle. If it's not an animal I suppose it can be a plant, but I didn't notice anyone getting excited when I mentioned that before as a possible prototype for a S PI hilt. FYI most (not neccessarily all, but way most) sword decorations worldwide are made to be viewed when the sword is in its typical display position; typically point-down, at the hip or wall, but A/ that doesn't address edge-up/edge-down, and B/ kampilans seem to have been commonly carried rather than worn?...

wilked aka Khun Deng · 22nd January 2005, 04:49 PM

Rick, i'll try to get some more edge pics tomorrow for you and no the center disk is not metal just carved wood.
I haven't decided on replacing the hair yet.
For those of you who like the crusty look all I can say is I've been in the Army too long, I CANNOT leave a weapon in an unservicable condition it drives me nuts (they did their job well). I will always clean and polish and preserve to try and return it to it's former glory and insure if it can be made servicable again it will be (this includes sharpening).
As for the recarve theory, I have my doubts as the carving on this handle is pierced clean through twice at the beak and once over the disk (pics don't show this but now that you are aware you can probably find the spots).

Zelbone, I wouldn't mind etching the blade but, have never done it before and don't want this piece to be the first try. I would very much appreciate your help and advice when you come through.

Thanks all, I REALLY like this piece it was an instant decsion at first inspection.

Rick · 22nd January 2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilked aka Khun Deng

For those of you who like the crusty look all I can say is I've been in the Army too long, I CANNOT leave a weapon in an unservicable condition it drives me nuts (they did their job well). I will always clean and polish and preserve to try and return it to it's former glory and insure if it can be made servicable again it will be (this includes sharpening).
n.

Too funny Dan , I don't know how many hours I have spent re-etching Moro Kris blades that were polished bright by your Span Am War forefathers .

I tend to agree , I think this hilt is not a re-carve but a rare and beautiful variant .

Federico · 22nd January 2005, 10:01 PM

Recarves when done well can be extremely hard to detect. While there is the occaisional ad-hoc recarve that are easily detectable, when we are talking recarve here, we are talking someone with lots of money looking to change a piece and take no small steps at it. They are also looking to hide the fact that it has been done. So clues to traditional re-fits and recarves are generally much more subtle, such as off lines, etc... Which is what makes this piece to me a likely candidate for being a recarve. It is obviously very well done, but there are a few features that are off. I doubt the carver had a slip, and if he did, for such a nice piece I doubt he would be let off with just placing it on anyways. Anyways, this is a level of pickiness in Moro Weaponry that we normally dont do on the forum. I know the vast bulk of my swords are ones that have all been tweaked here and there, and the fact does not take away from the quality of the piece, when done very well. Unless of course you are adamant about having 100% original, but then to do that you suddenly limit yourself away from the vast majority of the stuff on the market these days.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 23rd January 2005, 10:22 AM

Rick, here's those pics of the top and bottom edge.

Ian · 23rd January 2005, 10:35 PM

Dan lucked out with this one! And he got it a GREAT price ...

This kampilan is 100% original, no reworking to the hilt evident at all. the metal guard on both sides of the cross piece is still solid. All the wood is still there. The handle is wrapped with finely woven abaca cloth. Only the horse hair has disappeared. It even has the traditional scabbard of two pieces of crudely carved wood shaped on the inside to fit the blade, and held together originally by a few thin rattan strips that could be sliced through without removing the blade. (See Krieger's description and others' reports of how a devastating blow could be struck with the sheathed kampilan.)

The hilt on this one is unlike any others I have seen and my first impression was a "naga" variant. Before cleaning, this sword had a nice old patina to the hilt and blade, but the carving on the hilt since cleaning is now much more obvious and crisper -- really an outstanding example of Moro artistic work.

From its condition before cleaning, I would say this kampilan is at least 100 years old. One of the best I've seen. Congrats Dan.

Ian.

21st January 2005, 04:26 PM	#1
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Very Unusual Kampilan Once again my thanks go out to Ian without who I assuredly would not have found this blade. What struck us right off was the unusual pommel design and a two slab pegged scabbard design that I had not seen before. The dealer said it was Maranao probably from the Lake Lanao region (currently a hotbed of Abu Sayyaf activity) but I don't know enough yet to make that call. This one, after conservation, proved to be completely orginal, no apparent repairs or redressing even down to the wooden pegged one-side-open scabbard (although it did appear to have been restained at one time). Before conservation

21st January 2005, 04:31 PM	#2
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	After Conservation And again after conservation. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/wilked/Philippines/Picture028.jpg [/IMG] Still some red hair stuck in the dowels when I pulled one out! And a shot in relation to the stove to show the size of this puppy! Educate me!

21st January 2005, 10:56 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Score !! Quite an interesting pommel ! Sea Eagle , Makara , Naga , I can't seem to decide which form it is . The crossguard too is a very interesting shape . Just my preference but I liked the crusty old finish , then again you can see more carving detail now . Outstanding example Dan ! I'll bet this one feels good in your hand .

22nd January 2005, 12:10 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Dan How about some top and edge pics of this hilt . Is it pierced . I have always wondered from which perspective these hilts should be viewed ' I'm guessing that it is working edge down . (please pardon my futzing with your image) It looks almost like an opening plant or flower . Is that a metal insert in the circle ? I love kampilan , I think they're the most lethal sword in the panoply of Moro edged weapons . They are also uniquely different from all other Moro swords . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 22nd January 2005 at 12:27 AM.

23rd January 2005, 10:22 AM	#15
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Top and Bottom Rick, here's those pics of the top and bottom edge. Attached Images

21st January 2005, 04:45 PM	#3
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Wow. That hilt with the swept pommel is great. Thanks for posting that.

22nd January 2005, 01:10 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Ian has a really good eye for PI stuff. He got a spear last year from Artzi 5 minutes before I got there to buy the same piece! (grumble, grumble, envy, envy ). I especially like the carving of the eagle/parrot - ornate and not modern. Very unique. Congratulations (more envying, more grumbling ).

22nd January 2005, 05:48 AM	#9
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	I wonder if the hilt is a re-carve of an original much larger kampilan pommel (an example of large pommel kampilan is in Bob's book), due to the placement of the "eye". It is somewhat lopsided in its placement, and the bottom lines are somewhat abrupt, which makes me wonder about it being a recarve. Definitely if it is, it was done long ago, and with great care. The hilt wrap was re-done, seemingly long ago, but also does not appear original. Beautiful blade, and it looks like it is hiding a very wonderful pattern. Will be interesting to see it after etching. I love the wire staples. Anyways, if you are interested in re-doing the hair, bamboo chopsticks make great plugs, and horse hair extensions (for show ponies) are readily available in black. Dont like the bright red hair sold for Chinese weapons, and black hair is just as traditional (typically even in kampilans with red hair, it would be interspersed with plain black, but many just had black hair).

22nd January 2005, 09:33 AM	#10
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	WOW!!! That is truly a unique and rare kampilan. The pommel is truly nothing I've seen before. The carving is well executed! Not only do you have a unique pommel, but you have a scabbard and a crossguard with handguard/staples on BOTH sides...rare on both accounts. This is truly a unique find. The blade looks like it is in pretty good shape and, as Federico noticed, is probably hiding a nice pattern. I was also wondering as well if the pommel is a recarve, but then there wouldn't be enough material there if the original pommel was your typical kampilan swallow's tail/croccodile jaw form. But as Federico mentions, if it was a re-carve, then the only form possible with enough material to re-carve from would be one of those ultra-rare kampilan hilt forms that Cato mentions in his book and is pictured there as well. I've never actually seen one of those forms, but the picture in the book where the Moro retainer has it resting on his shoulder shows how massive it is. If I remember right, these kampilans were more ceremonial than actually usable. If indeed this example is a recarve of one of those massive rare forms, it was probably done to lighten the weight of the pommel and to make it a more viable weapon. In any case, the pommel is truly unique whether it's original or a recarve (it does kind of look like a parrot .) That and the fact that it has double-handguards and a complete scabbard makes this quite a rare and unique kampilan. Excellent find!!! Now don't go buy every unique sword while your in the Philippine, Dan!!! Save some for us !!!

22nd January 2005, 02:24 PM	#11
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Looks 100% like a bird to me. Very stylized certainly, but if any other animal has eyes and beak in relation like that it can only be a turtle. If it's not an animal I suppose it can be a plant, but I didn't notice anyone getting excited when I mentioned that before as a possible prototype for a S PI hilt. FYI most (not neccessarily all, but way most) sword decorations worldwide are made to be viewed when the sword is in its typical display position; typically point-down, at the hip or wall, but A/ that doesn't address edge-up/edge-down, and B/ kampilans seem to have been commonly carried rather than worn?...

22nd January 2005, 04:49 PM	#12
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Rick, i'll try to get some more edge pics tomorrow for you and no the center disk is not metal just carved wood. I haven't decided on replacing the hair yet. For those of you who like the crusty look all I can say is I've been in the Army too long, I CANNOT leave a weapon in an unservicable condition it drives me nuts (they did their job well). I will always clean and polish and preserve to try and return it to it's former glory and insure if it can be made servicable again it will be (this includes sharpening). As for the recarve theory, I have my doubts as the carving on this handle is pierced clean through twice at the beak and once over the disk (pics don't show this but now that you are aware you can probably find the spots). Zelbone, I wouldn't mind etching the blade but, have never done it before and don't want this piece to be the first try. I would very much appreciate your help and advice when you come through. Thanks all, I REALLY like this piece it was an instant decsion at first inspection.

22nd January 2005, 10:01 PM	#14
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Recarves when done well can be extremely hard to detect. While there is the occaisional ad-hoc recarve that are easily detectable, when we are talking recarve here, we are talking someone with lots of money looking to change a piece and take no small steps at it. They are also looking to hide the fact that it has been done. So clues to traditional re-fits and recarves are generally much more subtle, such as off lines, etc... Which is what makes this piece to me a likely candidate for being a recarve. It is obviously very well done, but there are a few features that are off. I doubt the carver had a slip, and if he did, for such a nice piece I doubt he would be let off with just placing it on anyways. Anyways, this is a level of pickiness in Moro Weaponry that we normally dont do on the forum. I know the vast bulk of my swords are ones that have all been tweaked here and there, and the fact does not take away from the quality of the piece, when done very well. Unless of course you are adamant about having 100% original, but then to do that you suddenly limit yourself away from the vast majority of the stuff on the market these days.

23rd January 2005, 10:35 PM	#16
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	Excellent and unusual kampilan ... Dan lucked out with this one! And he got it a GREAT price ... This kampilan is 100% original, no reworking to the hilt evident at all. the metal guard on both sides of the cross piece is still solid. All the wood is still there. The handle is wrapped with finely woven abaca cloth. Only the horse hair has disappeared. It even has the traditional scabbard of two pieces of crudely carved wood shaped on the inside to fit the blade, and held together originally by a few thin rattan strips that could be sliced through without removing the blade. (See Krieger's description and others' reports of how a devastating blow could be struck with the sheathed kampilan.) The hilt on this one is unlike any others I have seen and my first impression was a "naga" variant. Before cleaning, this sword had a nice old patina to the hilt and blade, but the carving on the hilt since cleaning is now much more obvious and crisper -- really an outstanding example of Moro artistic work. From its condition before cleaning, I would say this kampilan is at least 100 years old. One of the best I've seen. Congrats Dan. Ian.