Tombak ( 1) Javanese ?

danny1976 · 26th March 2011, 06:06 PM

Hi guys

Today i picked up a tombak with original shaft ( shortend )
It Is brought to Holland in 1902 by Henri de Chauvigny de Blot . He was a Resident of madura . I did purchase it direct out of the familly.

Hope some one can tel me some more ?
I have another one , i will post it later .

Total length 2.25 cm.
a nice detail. the shaft is round but the last part is carved different.

Regards,

Danny

Nathaniel · 26th March 2011, 06:48 PM

Beautiful spear! It's n great condition! Wonder what a clean up of the blade would revile. Thanks for sharing! I'll be interested to see what other info other forum members will add

danny1976 · 26th March 2011, 07:10 PM

@ Nathaniel,

Thanks

I will clean and etch (warangan ) the blade in the summer.

David · 26th March 2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny1976

@ Nathaniel,

Thanks

I will clean and etch (warangan ) the blade in the summer.

Yes, certainly needs some warangan. I look forward to seeing it stained. The ferrule (is there a traditional name for this part?) is beautiful.

kronckew · 26th March 2011, 07:28 PM

for a miniature it looks quite nicely detailed. getting all that detail into less than an inch is difficult

Maurice · 26th March 2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny1976

@ Nathaniel,

Thanks

I will clean and etch (warangan ) the blade in the summer.

Hi Danny,

Very nice spear. Congratulations.

And that with that great provenance!!!!

Are you sure you would etch it with warangan?
Why don't you leave it, or give it a slicely etch with lemonjuice or hot vinegar?

Rg,
Maurice

danny1976 · 26th March 2011, 09:09 PM

Hi Maurice ,

I believe there is something in youre collection soon with the
same provenance

About the etching ... i will wait until i realy know where the from, when the are
from Java i will give them the warangan treatment .
i they are from a other island maybe i just leave them in this state , not sure yet.

Maurice · 26th March 2011, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny1976

Hi Maurice ,

I believe there is something in youre collection soon with the
same provenance

About the etching ... i will wait until i realy know where the from, when the are
from Java i will give them the warangan treatment .
i they are from a other island maybe i just leave them in this state , not sure yet.

Yes, I've something with the same provenance. It will be delivered personally 4th April probably, while enjoying a cup of coffee.
It's a rencong, simple but genuine!
The rencong needs some cleaning, the blade is rusted, and I'm looking forward to start with the work.

I decided to make a thread of it. Maybe some more pieces of this collection will show up here later on....
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13559

A. G. Maisey · 27th March 2011, 03:18 AM

David, if the spears were Javanese the ferrule would be called either "sopal" or "brongsong".

The butt of the spear shaft when covered with metal is called a "tunjung". The word "tunjung" actually means "lotus" and the tunjung on the end of spear shaft has a little lotus shaped metal knob on it that can be dug into the ground.

The correct terminology is "sopal", but in colloquial speech people very often call it a "brongsong".

Strictly speaking a brongsong is a case for any weapon, it is also a woven basket that we put around fruit when it is still on the tree to protect it, so it will not fall because of wind or ripeness and get damaged .

danny1976 · 27th March 2011, 11:56 AM

[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]David, if the spears were Javanese the ferrule would be called either "sopal" or "brongsong".

@ Mr Maisey . So can i conclude out of the words above that the spears are not from Java ? I.m not sure by myself because the metal of the tombak is verry
dense welded , and the top of the ''bronsong'' makes me hesitate also .

someone that has a idea ?

A. G. Maisey · 27th March 2011, 12:08 PM

Danny, the spear blade is not Javanese.

The beautiful shaft and sopal are unlike any old Javanese pieces that I have seen.

danny1976 · 27th March 2011, 12:12 PM

@ mr Maisey , Thanks for answering.

I did some search last night in the database of the RMV and it,s diffecult to see on the photo,s but i have the feeling i could be atjeh ... but stil not sure.

asomotif · 27th March 2011, 01:05 PM

Danny,

Yes it loooks Atjeh or at least Sumatra.
I would not wrangan them.

I will post some pictures of Atjeh spears I have later this week.

Gavin Nugent · 27th March 2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny1976

@ mr Maisey , Thanks for answering.

I did some search last night in the database of the RMV and it,s diffecult to see on the photo,s but i have the feeling i could be atjeh ... but stil not sure.

Danny, I too say Sumatra.
They both share the form of the silvered one in the Kelling Hall spears I have retained and in general, the spear heads are of Sumatran/Aceh form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Danny,

Yes it loooks Atjeh or at least Sumatra.
I would not wrangan them.

I will post some pictures of Atjeh spears I have later this week.

Agreed, I would not Wrangan them.

Gav

Sajen · 27th March 2011, 03:15 PM

Hi Danny,

like I write by the other lance, very very nice. Another vote for not warangan but maybe an mild etch with vinegar.

Regards,

Detlef

danny1976 · 28th March 2011, 12:20 AM

Everybody rhanks for the great joining in the discusion !!

Definitly no warangan for the spears , maybe a etch but maybe i just leave them like this .
For the compare i did ''steal'' a photo from the spears from kelling hal , hope this won,t be a problem.
It looks like they are probaly from atjeh , if this is so...i have a problem..i don,t have atjeh pieces, so have to find some then

@ Willem
I look forward to youre photo,s

Here the photo,s tpo compare the spear head , only the ferrules are still different

Gavin Nugent · 28th March 2011, 02:16 AM

Steal

is such an ugly word Danny!

Gav

danny1976 · 28th March 2011, 09:44 AM

@ Gav,

Yes you are right ......borrow is better

asomotif · 30th March 2011, 01:29 PM

Here 2 spears I have in my collection.
The shafts are round at the bottom and nar the top the are octagonal. made from dark wood.

Maurice · 30th March 2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Here 2 spears I have in my collection.
The shafts are round at the bottom and nar the top the are octagonal. made from dark wood.

Thanks for sharing! I like those spears!
I started to collect swords, but nowadays I almost have as many lances and shields as I have swords... ;-)

Sajen · 30th March 2011, 11:55 PM

Here two fast taken pictures from a lance of my collection, probably from Atjeh. 230 cm long, end also octagonal and thicker from dark wood as well.

danny1976 · 31st March 2011, 12:13 AM

@ Willen and Sajen,

Nice lance,s , thanks for sharring

asomotif · 31st March 2011, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny1976

I did some search last night in the database of the RMV and it,s diffecult to see on the photo,s but i have the feeling i could be atjeh ... but stil not sure.

Hello Danny,
I also checked the RMV.
Difficult to say.
These might be Atjeh, but just the same it might be any other part of Sumatra. The ferrule is not specifically Atjeh, nor is the blade.
Blades like this one are also found on karo batak "lembing raja"
The octagonal wood might be the best indication pointing towards Atjeh at this moment

Still nice lances in very nice condition

26th March 2011, 06:06 PM	#1
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Tombak ( 1) Javanese ? Hi guys Today i picked up a tombak with original shaft ( shortend ) It Is brought to Holland in 1902 by Henri de Chauvigny de Blot . He was a Resident of madura . I did purchase it direct out of the familly. Hope some one can tel me some more ? I have another one , i will post it later . Total length 2.25 cm. a nice detail. the shaft is round but the last part is carved different. Regards, Danny Attached Images

28th March 2011, 12:20 AM	#16
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Everybody rhanks for the great joining in the discusion !! Definitly no warangan for the spears , maybe a etch but maybe i just leave them like this . For the compare i did ''steal'' a photo from the spears from kelling hal , hope this won,t be a problem. It looks like they are probaly from atjeh , if this is so...i have a problem..i don,t have atjeh pieces, so have to find some then @ Willem I look forward to youre photo,s Here the photo,s tpo compare the spear head , only the ferrules are still different Attached Images

28th March 2011, 02:16 AM	#17
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Such an ugly word Steal is such an ugly word Danny! Gav

30th March 2011, 01:29 PM	#19
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	atjeh spears Here 2 spears I have in my collection. The shafts are round at the bottom and nar the top the are octagonal. made from dark wood. Attached Images

30th March 2011, 11:55 PM	#21
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Here two fast taken pictures from a lance of my collection, probably from Atjeh. 230 cm long, end also octagonal and thicker from dark wood as well. Attached Images

26th March 2011, 06:48 PM	#2
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Beautiful spear! It's n great condition! Wonder what a clean up of the blade would revile. Thanks for sharing! I'll be interested to see what other info other forum members will add

26th March 2011, 07:10 PM	#3
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	@ Nathaniel, Thanks I will clean and etch (warangan ) the blade in the summer.

26th March 2011, 07:28 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	for a miniature it looks quite nicely detailed. getting all that detail into less than an inch is difficult

26th March 2011, 09:09 PM	#7
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Hi Maurice , I believe there is something in youre collection soon with the same provenance About the etching ... i will wait until i realy know where the from, when the are from Java i will give them the warangan treatment . i they are from a other island maybe i just leave them in this state , not sure yet.

27th March 2011, 03:18 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	David, if the spears were Javanese the ferrule would be called either "sopal" or "brongsong". The butt of the spear shaft when covered with metal is called a "tunjung". The word "tunjung" actually means "lotus" and the tunjung on the end of spear shaft has a little lotus shaped metal knob on it that can be dug into the ground. The correct terminology is "sopal", but in colloquial speech people very often call it a "brongsong". Strictly speaking a brongsong is a case for any weapon, it is also a woven basket that we put around fruit when it is still on the tree to protect it, so it will not fall because of wind or ripeness and get damaged .

27th March 2011, 11:56 AM	#10
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]David, if the spears were Javanese the ferrule would be called either "sopal" or "brongsong". @ Mr Maisey . So can i conclude out of the words above that the spears are not from Java ? I.m not sure by myself because the metal of the tombak is verry dense welded , and the top of the ''bronsong'' makes me hesitate also . someone that has a idea ?

27th March 2011, 12:08 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Danny, the spear blade is not Javanese. The beautiful shaft and sopal are unlike any old Javanese pieces that I have seen.

27th March 2011, 12:12 PM	#12
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	@ mr Maisey , Thanks for answering. I did some search last night in the database of the RMV and it,s diffecult to see on the photo,s but i have the feeling i could be atjeh ... but stil not sure.

27th March 2011, 01:05 PM	#13
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Danny, Yes it loooks Atjeh or at least Sumatra. I would not wrangan them. I will post some pictures of Atjeh spears I have later this week.

27th March 2011, 03:15 PM	#15
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hi Danny, like I write by the other lance, very very nice. Another vote for not warangan but maybe an mild etch with vinegar. Regards, Detlef

28th March 2011, 09:44 AM	#18
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	@ Gav, Yes you are right ......borrow is better

31st March 2011, 12:13 AM	#22
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	@ Willen and Sajen, Nice lance,s , thanks for sharring