Dayak parang

David · 16th July 2007, 10:09 PM

I stumbled across this at an antique mall in Cincinnati, of all places.

Not exactly known for it's ethnographic weaponry. Sorry for the bad photos. Shot it very quickly in the fading light last evening.
Can anyone put a better ID on this one. Sorry, i forgot to measure it, but it has a fairly short blade. I'll add the measurements when i get home tonight. I hesitate to call it a mandau because the size and shape seems a bit different. Seems like a well made old blade though and i love the hilt carving, which is also a bit different than ones i have seen.

David · 16th July 2007, 10:11 PM

Here's a couple of more pics.

Sorry, no scabbard with this one.

ariel · 16th July 2007, 10:44 PM

Fabulous!
This is the classic example of a beheading sword used by the feared Headhunters of Blue Ash!

Battara · 16th July 2007, 11:33 PM

I love the carving. Congratulations! Reminds me of something Iban.

David · 16th July 2007, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Fabulous!
This is the classic example of a beheading sword used by the feared Headhunters of Blue Ash!

LOL!!! Hey, what do you know about Blue Ash?

David · 16th July 2007, 11:48 PM

Yes Jose, i thought it might be Iban, but frankly i don't know all that much about this stuff. I only have one mandau in my collection and a whole lotta keris as you know.

Hopefully i can get some opinions from Ben, Willem, Michael and Dave who seem to know a great deal more about these weapons.

kai · 16th July 2007, 11:52 PM

Hello David,

Hmm, the blade and the hilt do show some skill. However, I'm fairly sure the hilt isn't carved in any traditional style - looks 20th century to me, possibly for someone travelling for pleasure...

Regards,
Kai

Bill M · 17th July 2007, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Fabulous!
This is the classic example of a beheading sword used by the feared Headhunters of Blue Ash!

Ohio?

Bill M · 17th July 2007, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello David,

Hmm, the blade and the hilt do show some skill. However, I'm fairly sure the hilt isn't carved in any traditional style - looks 20th century to me, possibly for someone travelling for pleasure...

Regards,
Kai

LOL and ROTFLMAO!!!!! Wish EAA had Rammy smilies!

VANDOO · 17th July 2007, 01:42 AM

I LIKE IT

IT LOOKS LIKE DAYAK WORK TO ME BASICLY TRADITIONAL DESIGN WITH A FEW THINGS ADDED THAT LOOK MORE LIKE BATAK, THE SNAKE FOR INSTANCE. I WOULD ESTIMATE IT IS NO NEWER THAN 50 YEARS OLD AND PERHAPS UP TO 100 ,CAN'T TELL FROM THE PICTURES EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE VERY GOOD. I WOULD CERTIANLY LIKE TO ADD IT TO MY COLLECTION IF IT WAS IN MY PRICE RANGE. TOO BAD IT IS MISSING ITS SCABBARD, I SUSPECT THE MANDAU EXPERTS WILL BE ABLE TO TELL YOU MUCH MORE. WISH I COULD RUN ACROSS SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN AN ANTIQUE SHOP AROUND HERE.

David · 17th July 2007, 01:46 AM

hmmm, well the blade is rather weighty and well made and shows considerable wear and patina, as does the hilt. The pictures don't do justice as i suggested earily. If this is 20thC it is certainly very early on in that century. I suppose the hilt could have been a latter addition, but it doesn't look or feel that way. Everything about this piece gives me the impression that it saw a good deal of use. Maybe "someone travelling for pleasure" cut through a few jungles with it on their journeys.

Its overall length is just shy of 20 in. with the blade alone only 14.5 in.
Rather compact, still very sharp and definitely dangerous, even for its size.

David · 17th July 2007, 01:54 AM

Yeah Barry, it was a shocker for me to see it in this antique mall that i visit regularly sitting in a display case filled with old wood planes and other tools.

I just had to buy it.

Not too many others in this town would really appreciate it .

VANDOO · 17th July 2007, 03:20 AM

CONGRADULATIONS I WOULD SAY THAT IT WAS DEFINITELY YOUR LUCKY DAY AS MOST OF THESE KIND OF THINGS END UP ON EBAY WHERE YOU HAVE TO BID AGAINST THE DEALERS AND COLLECTORS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD.

OFTEN THE OPINION ON MANY ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS IS THAT ANYTHING AFTER A CERTAN DATE IS TOURIST STUFF AND NOT REAL TRIBAL ARTEFACT. IN MY OPINION THIS IS NOT TRUE! , FOR INSTANCE WHEN HEADHUNTING ENDED SWORDS WERE STILL CARRIED AND USED FOR WORK AS JUNGLE KNIVES AND TOOLS. THEY ALSO SERVE THE PURPOSE OF SELF DEFENSE,STATUS AND ARE USED FOR CEREMONYS EVEN TO THE PRESENT TIME IN MANY AREAS.

IN TODAYS WORLD THE SWORDS USED FOR CEREMONY OR TO DENOTE STATUS OR WEALTH WOULD BE MORE ORNATE THAN THOSE USED AS TOOLS OR JUNGLE KNIVES. I SUSPECT THAT MAY HAVE BEEN TRUE TO A CERTAN EXTENT IN THE PAST , AS QUITE A BIT OF A WARRIORS WEALTH WOULD BE TIED UP IN A GOOD SWORD. SO PERHAPS THEY MIGHT HAVE HAD MORE THAN ONE IF THEY COULD AFFORD IT OR WOULD HAVE DONE THEIR OWN CARVEING AND DECORATION TO A MORE PLAIN SWORD UNTIL THEY COULD AFFORD BETTER.
I WOULD SAY THE CARVING ON YOUR EXAMPLE WAS DONE BY A MASTER CARVER DUE TO ITS QUALITY AND THE SIZE OF THE DEER ANTLER USED.

DaveS · 17th July 2007, 04:23 AM

David: Congratulations on a great find. Of all the mandaus we own, we definitely have not seen a better example of handle carving. While i'm not sure if it's Iban, i think it's probably no later than 1930 or 40 at the latest. I seem to recall that one book i read from a man who traveled through Borneo in 1879, that he stated that each man owned three or four mandaus, possibly depending on his status. I can't seem to find this book right now, i'll have to look for it later. Nevertheless, you have the best mandau handle that we have ever seen...................Dave.

Dajak · 17th July 2007, 05:10 AM

Hi David it is 100% sure no Iban can you make some close up pics off the Handle also where the brass is connected to the Handle and below the handle and blade.
The blade looks old .

Ben

David · 17th July 2007, 05:33 AM

Thanks Dave, Ben and Barry for your responses.
Ben, i will try to do some more pics tomorrow evening, but i won't be able to get any more shots up for a couple of days.
BTW, the brass isn't very well connected to the hilt at all. I did a quick re-wrap before i photographed it and frankly i do not know whether the brass ring belongs at the top or bottom of the wire wrap. It seemed to make most amount of sense at the top. When i have time i would like to do a better restoration job on the wrappping.

asomotif · 18th July 2007, 10:48 AM

Dear David,

This is a strange combination.
The general form of the handle looks like examples that can be found on the finest of jimpuls.
But the blade is not a Jimpul, and the handle shows all kind of motifs, but nothing that one would expect.
Also the small metal pins that are in the handle is something I have never seen before.

But than again, personally I think that people from Borneo are open to influences from outside borneo and maybe this carver was inspired by foreign motifs. It must have been a skillful carver for sure.

But the odd motifs make it difficult to give it a place and date.

Never the less, good choice to take this home from the antique mall

David · 18th July 2007, 04:32 PM

Yes, i have never seen metal pins in one of these hilts either. I was hoping that might be a clue to its origin. Thanks for commenting.
Given the size and shape of the blade does anyone care to put a more definitive name to this form, or are we best off just referring to it as a parang.

asomotif · 18th July 2007, 04:42 PM

Dear David,

The blade is a mandau. (is assume the blade is concave/convex ie. hollow grind on the other side of the blade)

Simple blades with the rather blunt point often are pretty old.
pre 1900 is possible. (see enclosed pic of my koetei mandau)

So who knows what other forumites may come up with on the hilt.

David · 18th July 2007, 04:51 PM

Mandau it is then. It is a concave/convex form. The blade definitely gives me the feeling it may be 19th C.

Dajak · 18th July 2007, 04:59 PM

This is not an type off handle you can find on an Iban mandau or Jimpul

Ben

asomotif · 18th July 2007, 05:31 PM

The double S shape reminds me of the throat-tattoo that is so often seen amongst the Iban

VVV · 18th July 2007, 06:32 PM

It reminds me in size of this Kayan parang described in a book from 1880.
Like Ben I don't think the motifs of the handle is Iban but I don't know from which tribe it is.
At the moment I am not at home with my reference library but maybe somebody else have some ideas on the snake motif tribewise?

Michael

Dajak · 18th July 2007, 08:24 PM

Take a look at the aso motif on the handle it looks Kayan or Kenya to me
the brass wire looks old and the ferrule but I need close up pics .

Lets see what Michael finds out

Ben

Mytribalworld · 18th July 2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Mandau it is then. It is a concave/convex form. The blade definitely gives me the feeling it may be 19th C.

Hi David,
The piece is indeed from the 19th.
When I did recearch in the collection of Leiden I found a mandau with a similar carving.They have more of this type in the collection.see enclosed pics.
The blades of these mandaus are mostly small and undecorated.
Scabbards have a curious boatstyle endpiece.
Mandaus like this are found in the south of Borneo, on one of these the tag says " Banjarmassin" .Most mandaus of this style are from before 1900.
It should fit in my study course I think these mandaus had there influence on the mandau's in the Kutai area,or probably old Kutai mandaus did also have this shape? Whats quite typical is the " non dayak" style in the carvings of the hilts.Its too early for me to say anything about that,but in the area of Banjar were living a mix of different groups malay,dayak,chinese etc.
possibly they have influenced eachother and that could also be seen on this mandau.

friendly regards,

Arjan.

David · 18th July 2007, 10:01 PM

Thanks for that info Arjan. I see the same mirrorred "S" motif on thios example. Great research!

Dajak · 19th July 2007, 04:01 PM

Mandau from kutai area have different Handle s and the blade off this one is not small but wide
There are also kutai mandau with inlay .

Ben

David · 19th July 2007, 04:24 PM

Thanks for addition info about Kutai mandau, but i don't think Arjan has said he thought mine was from there.
I wish there were some different angles on the photos of your example Arjan, but i can now see on the top the same style of opened mouth creature that is on mine so now that is 2 motifs in common between these hilts. There definitely seem to be from the same area to me. I wonder if the museum you found it in has any more information of were it was collected?

Dajak · 19th July 2007, 05:17 PM

He is talking about influence and I don t see the influence

Ben

asomotif · 19th July 2007, 05:33 PM

The Hilt of Davids mandau clearly has similarities with the exmaple that Arjan is showing in this thread
Now compare the example from Arjan with my mandau that clearly has a Koetei handle.

Simple short blade, broadening scabbard , rattan stick on the scabbard.

I can see the transition / influence .

16th July 2007, 10:09 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Dayak parang I stumbled across this at an antique mall in Cincinnati, of all places. Not exactly known for it's ethnographic weaponry. Sorry for the bad photos. Shot it very quickly in the fading light last evening. Can anyone put a better ID on this one. Sorry, i forgot to measure it, but it has a fairly short blade. I'll add the measurements when i get home tonight. I hesitate to call it a mandau because the size and shape seems a bit different. Seems like a well made old blade though and i love the hilt carving, which is also a bit different than ones i have seen. Attached Images

16th July 2007, 10:11 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Here's a couple of more pics. Sorry, no scabbard with this one. Attached Images

18th July 2007, 04:42 PM	#19
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Dear David, The blade is a mandau. (is assume the blade is concave/convex ie. hollow grind on the other side of the blade) Simple blades with the rather blunt point often are pretty old. pre 1900 is possible. (see enclosed pic of my koetei mandau) So who knows what other forumites may come up with on the hilt. Attached Images

18th July 2007, 06:32 PM	#23
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	It reminds me in size of this Kayan parang described in a book from 1880. Like Ben I don't think the motifs of the handle is Iban but I don't know from which tribe it is. At the moment I am not at home with my reference library but maybe somebody else have some ideas on the snake motif tribewise? Michael Attached Images

19th July 2007, 05:33 PM	#30
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	The Hilt of Davids mandau clearly has similarities with the exmaple that Arjan is showing in this thread Now compare the example from Arjan with my mandau that clearly has a Koetei handle. Simple short blade, broadening scabbard , rattan stick on the scabbard. I can see the transition / influence . Attached Images

16th July 2007, 10:44 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Fabulous! This is the classic example of a beheading sword used by the feared Headhunters of Blue Ash!

16th July 2007, 11:33 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	I love the carving. Congratulations! Reminds me of something Iban.

16th July 2007, 11:48 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Yes Jose, i thought it might be Iban, but frankly i don't know all that much about this stuff. I only have one mandau in my collection and a whole lotta keris as you know. Hopefully i can get some opinions from Ben, Willem, Michael and Dave who seem to know a great deal more about these weapons.

16th July 2007, 11:52 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello David, Hmm, the blade and the hilt do show some skill. However, I'm fairly sure the hilt isn't carved in any traditional style - looks 20th century to me, possibly for someone travelling for pleasure... Regards, Kai

17th July 2007, 01:42 AM	#10
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I LIKE IT IT LOOKS LIKE DAYAK WORK TO ME BASICLY TRADITIONAL DESIGN WITH A FEW THINGS ADDED THAT LOOK MORE LIKE BATAK, THE SNAKE FOR INSTANCE. I WOULD ESTIMATE IT IS NO NEWER THAN 50 YEARS OLD AND PERHAPS UP TO 100 ,CAN'T TELL FROM THE PICTURES EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE VERY GOOD. I WOULD CERTIANLY LIKE TO ADD IT TO MY COLLECTION IF IT WAS IN MY PRICE RANGE. TOO BAD IT IS MISSING ITS SCABBARD, I SUSPECT THE MANDAU EXPERTS WILL BE ABLE TO TELL YOU MUCH MORE. WISH I COULD RUN ACROSS SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN AN ANTIQUE SHOP AROUND HERE.

17th July 2007, 01:46 AM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	hmmm, well the blade is rather weighty and well made and shows considerable wear and patina, as does the hilt. The pictures don't do justice as i suggested earily. If this is 20thC it is certainly very early on in that century. I suppose the hilt could have been a latter addition, but it doesn't look or feel that way. Everything about this piece gives me the impression that it saw a good deal of use. Maybe "someone travelling for pleasure" cut through a few jungles with it on their journeys. Its overall length is just shy of 20 in. with the blade alone only 14.5 in. Rather compact, still very sharp and definitely dangerous, even for its size.

17th July 2007, 01:54 AM	#12
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Yeah Barry, it was a shocker for me to see it in this antique mall that i visit regularly sitting in a display case filled with old wood planes and other tools. I just had to buy it. Not too many others in this town would really appreciate it .

17th July 2007, 03:20 AM	#13
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	CONGRADULATIONS I WOULD SAY THAT IT WAS DEFINITELY YOUR LUCKY DAY AS MOST OF THESE KIND OF THINGS END UP ON EBAY WHERE YOU HAVE TO BID AGAINST THE DEALERS AND COLLECTORS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD. OFTEN THE OPINION ON MANY ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS IS THAT ANYTHING AFTER A CERTAN DATE IS TOURIST STUFF AND NOT REAL TRIBAL ARTEFACT. IN MY OPINION THIS IS NOT TRUE! , FOR INSTANCE WHEN HEADHUNTING ENDED SWORDS WERE STILL CARRIED AND USED FOR WORK AS JUNGLE KNIVES AND TOOLS. THEY ALSO SERVE THE PURPOSE OF SELF DEFENSE,STATUS AND ARE USED FOR CEREMONYS EVEN TO THE PRESENT TIME IN MANY AREAS. IN TODAYS WORLD THE SWORDS USED FOR CEREMONY OR TO DENOTE STATUS OR WEALTH WOULD BE MORE ORNATE THAN THOSE USED AS TOOLS OR JUNGLE KNIVES. I SUSPECT THAT MAY HAVE BEEN TRUE TO A CERTAN EXTENT IN THE PAST , AS QUITE A BIT OF A WARRIORS WEALTH WOULD BE TIED UP IN A GOOD SWORD. SO PERHAPS THEY MIGHT HAVE HAD MORE THAN ONE IF THEY COULD AFFORD IT OR WOULD HAVE DONE THEIR OWN CARVEING AND DECORATION TO A MORE PLAIN SWORD UNTIL THEY COULD AFFORD BETTER. I WOULD SAY THE CARVING ON YOUR EXAMPLE WAS DONE BY A MASTER CARVER DUE TO ITS QUALITY AND THE SIZE OF THE DEER ANTLER USED.

17th July 2007, 04:23 AM	#14
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	David: Congratulations on a great find. Of all the mandaus we own, we definitely have not seen a better example of handle carving. While i'm not sure if it's Iban, i think it's probably no later than 1930 or 40 at the latest. I seem to recall that one book i read from a man who traveled through Borneo in 1879, that he stated that each man owned three or four mandaus, possibly depending on his status. I can't seem to find this book right now, i'll have to look for it later. Nevertheless, you have the best mandau handle that we have ever seen...................Dave.

17th July 2007, 05:10 AM	#15
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi David it is 100% sure no Iban can you make some close up pics off the Handle also where the brass is connected to the Handle and below the handle and blade. The blade looks old . Ben

17th July 2007, 05:33 AM	#16
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Thanks Dave, Ben and Barry for your responses. Ben, i will try to do some more pics tomorrow evening, but i won't be able to get any more shots up for a couple of days. BTW, the brass isn't very well connected to the hilt at all. I did a quick re-wrap before i photographed it and frankly i do not know whether the brass ring belongs at the top or bottom of the wire wrap. It seemed to make most amount of sense at the top. When i have time i would like to do a better restoration job on the wrappping.

18th July 2007, 10:48 AM	#17
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Dear David, This is a strange combination. The general form of the handle looks like examples that can be found on the finest of jimpuls. But the blade is not a Jimpul, and the handle shows all kind of motifs, but nothing that one would expect. Also the small metal pins that are in the handle is something I have never seen before. But than again, personally I think that people from Borneo are open to influences from outside borneo and maybe this carver was inspired by foreign motifs. It must have been a skillful carver for sure. But the odd motifs make it difficult to give it a place and date. Never the less, good choice to take this home from the antique mall

18th July 2007, 04:32 PM	#18
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Yes, i have never seen metal pins in one of these hilts either. I was hoping that might be a clue to its origin. Thanks for commenting. Given the size and shape of the blade does anyone care to put a more definitive name to this form, or are we best off just referring to it as a parang.

18th July 2007, 04:51 PM	#20
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Mandau it is then. It is a concave/convex form. The blade definitely gives me the feeling it may be 19th C.

18th July 2007, 04:59 PM	#21
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	This is not an type off handle you can find on an Iban mandau or Jimpul Ben

18th July 2007, 05:31 PM	#22
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	The double S shape reminds me of the throat-tattoo that is so often seen amongst the Iban

18th July 2007, 08:24 PM	#24
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Take a look at the aso motif on the handle it looks Kayan or Kenya to me the brass wire looks old and the ferrule but I need close up pics . Lets see what Michael finds out Ben

18th July 2007, 10:01 PM	#26
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Thanks for that info Arjan. I see the same mirrorred "S" motif on thios example. Great research!

19th July 2007, 04:01 PM	#27
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Mandau from kutai area have different Handle s and the blade off this one is not small but wide There are also kutai mandau with inlay . Ben

19th July 2007, 04:24 PM	#28
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Thanks for addition info about Kutai mandau, but i don't think Arjan has said he thought mine was from there. I wish there were some different angles on the photos of your example Arjan, but i can now see on the top the same style of opened mouth creature that is on mine so now that is 2 motifs in common between these hilts. There definitely seem to be from the same area to me. I wonder if the museum you found it in has any more information of were it was collected?

19th July 2007, 05:17 PM	#29
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	He is talking about influence and I don t see the influence Ben