Java keris for considertation/comment

erikscollectables · 27th February 2014, 07:25 PM

Recently I was able to add this keris to my small collection.
I hope to learn more about it.

I was thinking the form might be megantoro but I was reading this earlier discussion about this form and therefore I am now in doubt.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=megantoro

The gonjo does not have the typical curve at the end (excuse me but I do not know the correct name for that) which would be typical for the gonjo wilut I think?

The handle is Madura but I think the blade might be east Java?

Hope to hear your opinions and learn.

Many thanks in advance, Erik

Rick · 27th February 2014, 10:07 PM

Erik, d'you suppose you could upload these images to the site please ?

If / When your photobucket account expires all the pictures are then lost .

Jean · 28th February 2014, 09:45 AM

Hello Erik,
This old blade has 5 waves so IMO the dapur is not Megantara nor any of the established dapur types in Central Java.
Regards

erikscollectables · 28th February 2014, 06:49 PM

Hello Jean,

Thanks for your comment, what is the implication - that it was made in Madura?

Regards, Erik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Erik,
This old blade has 5 waves so IMO the dapur is not Megantara nor any of the established dapur types in Central Java.
Regards

Jean · 28th February 2014, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikscollectables

Hello Jean,

Thanks for your comment, what is the implication - that it was made in Madura?

Regards, Erik

Hello Erik,
I have no clear idea but my personal guess would rather be an old javanese village or trade blade but other opinions are welcome

Regards

David · 1st March 2014, 12:05 AM

Hey Erik…i just wanted to repeat Rick's request that you upload these and future images directly to the site instead of using photo bucket or other off-site photo servers. We have noticed that you did that in the Sunggingan thread as well. Direct uploads help us maintain an illustrated archive for future viewings and saves the researcher from fruitless searches that end in picture-less forum discussions.These conversations are always disjointed due to the disconnect created by the loss of visual examples. If you are unclear how to upload directly here is a link that holds some directions.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

Thanks!

Rick · 1st March 2014, 01:37 AM

If you need any assistance contact either David or myself .

erikscollectables · 1st March 2014, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

If you need any assistance contact either David or myself .

Will resize the pictures so I can upload them directly.

Regards, Erik

erikscollectables · 1st March 2014, 08:28 AM

Here the pictures again directly uploaded.

David · 1st March 2014, 06:13 PM

Thanks Erik, much appreciated!

erikscollectables · 9th March 2014, 03:51 PM

Any more input? Hope to receive more opinions!

Regards, Erik

A. G. Maisey · 9th March 2014, 11:00 PM

Erik, please do not interpret what I shall write as criticism, it is not, I am only attempting to guide you to a more productive way in which to gain information.

When a question is asked that does not focus on a specific aspect, it becomes what I call a "nature of the universe" question. It is open ended and spongy.

If you want specific answers, or even specific comment, it is best to ask specific questions.

For example, I could ask somebody:- " what's the weather like today"

He could answer:- " oh, not bad, pretty OK"

But he hasn't told me if it is raining, or likely to rain, and that's what I wanted to know.

Specific questions get specific answers.

If you want more comment on your keris try to home in on exactly what you would like to know.

erikscollectables · 10th March 2014, 10:45 PM

I understand and what I was looking for is the following
a) is there an specific/established dapur for this kerisform (and if so what is it)?
b) has the end curve of the ganja wilut broken of or would this be part of the dapur?
b) an estimation of tangguh

Best regards, Erik

A. G. Maisey · 11th March 2014, 01:46 PM

a) --- There is no comparable dhapur in the Surakarta Pakem, but that does not mean that this was not a legitimate dhapur at the time it was made and in the place where it was made

b) --- This keris is very badly eroded, we can only guess at what might have been there before time stole it. I don't like guessing all that much.

c) --- I cannot classify this keris from photos. It has elements that suggest East Jawa, but "East Jawa" is not a recognised tangguh. Erik, something that has been forgotten about tangguh is this:- it arose to fulfill a societal need and it was originally intended to apply only to very high quality keris in very good condition:- keris of investment quality. For a long time now that has not been the case, everybody wants to slap a tangguh on every keris they see. I do not agree with this approach and prefer not to get involved with it.

erikscollectables · 11th March 2014, 08:56 PM

Thank you Mr Maisey!

Regards, Erik

27th February 2014, 07:25 PM	#1
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	Java keris for considertation/comment Recently I was able to add this keris to my small collection. I hope to learn more about it. I was thinking the form might be megantoro but I was reading this earlier discussion about this form and therefore I am now in doubt. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=megantoro The gonjo does not have the typical curve at the end (excuse me but I do not know the correct name for that) which would be typical for the gonjo wilut I think? The handle is Madura but I think the blade might be east Java? Hope to hear your opinions and learn. Many thanks in advance, Erik Last edited by erikscollectables; 28th February 2014 at 10:03 AM.

1st March 2014, 08:28 AM	#9
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	Here the pictures again directly uploaded. Attached Images

27th February 2014, 10:07 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Erik, d'you suppose you could upload these images to the site please ? If / When your photobucket account expires all the pictures are then lost .

28th February 2014, 09:45 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Erik, This old blade has 5 waves so IMO the dapur is not Megantara nor any of the established dapur types in Central Java. Regards

1st March 2014, 12:05 AM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Hey Erik…i just wanted to repeat Rick's request that you upload these and future images directly to the site instead of using photo bucket or other off-site photo servers. We have noticed that you did that in the Sunggingan thread as well. Direct uploads help us maintain an illustrated archive for future viewings and saves the researcher from fruitless searches that end in picture-less forum discussions.These conversations are always disjointed due to the disconnect created by the loss of visual examples. If you are unclear how to upload directly here is a link that holds some directions. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631 Thanks!

1st March 2014, 01:37 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	If you need any assistance contact either David or myself .

1st March 2014, 06:13 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Thanks Erik, much appreciated!

9th March 2014, 03:51 PM	#11
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	Any more input? Hope to receive more opinions! Regards, Erik

9th March 2014, 11:00 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Erik, please do not interpret what I shall write as criticism, it is not, I am only attempting to guide you to a more productive way in which to gain information. When a question is asked that does not focus on a specific aspect, it becomes what I call a "nature of the universe" question. It is open ended and spongy. If you want specific answers, or even specific comment, it is best to ask specific questions. For example, I could ask somebody:- " what's the weather like today" He could answer:- " oh, not bad, pretty OK" But he hasn't told me if it is raining, or likely to rain, and that's what I wanted to know. Specific questions get specific answers. If you want more comment on your keris try to home in on exactly what you would like to know.

10th March 2014, 10:45 PM	#13
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	I understand and what I was looking for is the following a) is there an specific/established dapur for this kerisform (and if so what is it)? b) has the end curve of the ganja wilut broken of or would this be part of the dapur? b) an estimation of tangguh Best regards, Erik

11th March 2014, 01:46 PM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	a) --- There is no comparable dhapur in the Surakarta Pakem, but that does not mean that this was not a legitimate dhapur at the time it was made and in the place where it was made b) --- This keris is very badly eroded, we can only guess at what might have been there before time stole it. I don't like guessing all that much. c) --- I cannot classify this keris from photos. It has elements that suggest East Jawa, but "East Jawa" is not a recognised tangguh. Erik, something that has been forgotten about tangguh is this:- it arose to fulfill a societal need and it was originally intended to apply only to very high quality keris in very good condition:- keris of investment quality. For a long time now that has not been the case, everybody wants to slap a tangguh on every keris they see. I do not agree with this approach and prefer not to get involved with it.

11th March 2014, 08:56 PM	#15
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	Thank you Mr Maisey! Regards, Erik