Yataghan inscription translation please

eftihis · 28th January 2008, 04:24 PM

Can somebody help? Zifir?

Zifir · 29th January 2008, 05:55 PM

Efhitis, thanks for posting these pictures. I saw the first inscription on many yatagans. Every time it was half erased and I could not make any sense out of it. For the first time I have seen it written very clearly.

The first inscription is:
Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir

These are the names of Eshab-i Keyf (Seven Sleepers) and their dog. I have no idea what is the significance of putting these names on a yatagan. Maybe someone from the forum can help on this subject.

The second inscription:

Sinn-i ‘adaya ya Rabb bu bıçağı kıl nişan
Sahibini daima muzaffer eyle olsun ‘alişan

This is a little bit literally translation, but I hope it makes sense:

May God make this knife a sign on the bossom of enemy
May God make the owner of this knife always glorious and illustrious

The third inscription:

Ey Bari Hoda bihakk hesti
Şeş çiz meram der feresti
'ilm-e 'amel ferah desti
iman-e man ten dorosti 'abd-e Muhammed

This is written in Persian. Maybe someone who knows Persian firstly, can correct my transcription and then be able to translate it. I know it is quite impossible for a native Persian speaker to make sense out of Persian as written and spoken by Turks

The fourth inscription:

Sene ihda aşer ve mieteyn ve elf
amel-e Mehmed sahib El-hac Muhammed

Year 1211 (1796-97)
made by Mehmed, owner Pilgrim Muhammed

eftihis · 3rd February 2008, 07:18 PM

According to Manoucher, the persian inscription read:

Ey bāri Xodā be haq hasti
Šeš čiz marā madad feresti
Elm-o amal farāx dasti imān amān tandoristi-ye abd-e Mohammad

O God if you are the Almighty, you will provide me with six things: knowledge, action, generosity, faith, peace, and the health for the servants of [the Prophet] Mohammad

ariel · 3rd February 2008, 08:28 PM

I do not doubt Manoucher's linguistic precision. Because of that, I am somewhat confused: the word "if".
Does the supplicant leave open the possibility that his prayer is addressed not to the True Almighty God? Then, to whom?
Or, if to the God who is not Almighty, does it mean that the six requests is the maximum he is asking for ( but would be happy with, say, 3?)
Is this structure ("... if you are...") common in Islamic prayers?

Yannis · 3rd February 2008, 09:23 PM

Who was that guy who said that

"translations are like women; the more beautiful the less faithful"

Aleksey G. · 21st January 2009, 03:26 PM

Yannis, I think it was Yevgeny Yevtushenko, a russian poet and novelist.

Original quote I think was:
"Translation is like a woman. If it is beautiful, it is not faithful. If it is faithful, it is not beautiful."

He might've meant something else when he repeated "If it is faithful, it is not beautiful.", maybe his own conflict and faith, he was a traveling poet and a creative person who was not afraid to speak his mind during the soviet regime, so KGB reported some "anti-soviet" activity on his part, by that they probably meant his ability to talk about things that are not exactly in line with the popular at the time.

I like your version better, shorter.

Absolutely true and applies here perfectly

28th January 2008, 04:24 PM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Yataghan inscription translation please Can somebody help? Zifir? Attached Images

29th January 2008, 05:55 PM	#2
Zifir Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Efhitis, thanks for posting these pictures. I saw the first inscription on many yatagans. Every time it was half erased and I could not make any sense out of it. For the first time I have seen it written very clearly. The first inscription is: Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir These are the names of Eshab-i Keyf (Seven Sleepers) and their dog. I have no idea what is the significance of putting these names on a yatagan. Maybe someone from the forum can help on this subject. The second inscription: Sinn-i ‘adaya ya Rabb bu bıçağı kıl nişan Sahibini daima muzaffer eyle olsun ‘alişan This is a little bit literally translation, but I hope it makes sense: May God make this knife a sign on the bossom of enemy May God make the owner of this knife always glorious and illustrious The third inscription: Ey Bari Hoda bihakk hesti Şeş çiz meram der feresti 'ilm-e 'amel ferah desti iman-e man ten dorosti 'abd-e Muhammed This is written in Persian. Maybe someone who knows Persian firstly, can correct my transcription and then be able to translate it. I know it is quite impossible for a native Persian speaker to make sense out of Persian as written and spoken by Turks The fourth inscription: Sene ihda aşer ve mieteyn ve elf amel-e Mehmed sahib El-hac Muhammed Year 1211 (1796-97) made by Mehmed, owner Pilgrim Muhammed Last edited by Zifir; 29th January 2008 at 06:28 PM.

21st January 2009, 03:26 PM	#6
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	Yannis, translation quote origin Yannis, I think it was Yevgeny Yevtushenko, a russian poet and novelist. Original quote I think was: "Translation is like a woman. If it is beautiful, it is not faithful. If it is faithful, it is not beautiful." He might've meant something else when he repeated "If it is faithful, it is not beautiful.", maybe his own conflict and faith, he was a traveling poet and a creative person who was not afraid to speak his mind during the soviet regime, so KGB reported some "anti-soviet" activity on his part, by that they probably meant his ability to talk about things that are not exactly in line with the popular at the time. I like your version better, shorter. Absolutely true and applies here perfectly

3rd February 2008, 07:18 PM	#3
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	According to Manoucher, the persian inscription read: Ey bāri Xodā be haq hasti Šeš čiz marā madad feresti Elm-o amal farāx dasti imān amān tandoristi-ye abd-e Mohammad O God if you are the Almighty, you will provide me with six things: knowledge, action, generosity, faith, peace, and the health for the servants of [the Prophet] Mohammad

3rd February 2008, 08:28 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not doubt Manoucher's linguistic precision. Because of that, I am somewhat confused: the word "if". Does the supplicant leave open the possibility that his prayer is addressed not to the True Almighty God? Then, to whom? Or, if to the God who is not Almighty, does it mean that the six requests is the maximum he is asking for ( but would be happy with, say, 3?) Is this structure ("... if you are...") common in Islamic prayers?

3rd February 2008, 09:23 PM	#5
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Who was that guy who said that "translations are like women; the more beautiful the less faithful"