Identification of markings on 16th century German arquebus

[Jean-Marc S.]

Hello,

Can you help me in the identification of markings appearing on the wooden stock and metal parts of a German 16th century arquebus ?

Thanks,

jm

[fernando]

How about pictures of the whole weapon ?

[Matchlock]

Hi Jean-Marc,


This is the coat-of-arms of the Grafen (counts) von Giech, Schloss Thurnau, Franconia, Germany, and the Freiherren von Könitz.
It must be branded in the butt stock of a matchlock musket - not an arquebus - that cannot date from the 16th century but must have been made during the first half of the 17th century, The Thirty Years War.
It represents the allied coats-of-arms of the Giech and Könitz families, and the inscription initials stand for 'Carl Gottfried (vnd) Dorothea von Giech (the G repeated) vnd Könitz', following their marriage in 1633.

I am afraid I can, even by those poor images, identify the piece. It was offered by Bolk and was a crudely cut-down and composite musket fragment - at best. The serpentine did not belong either. You can tell by the mismatching proportions - the butt stock is way too long for the rest of the piece - that the gun was severely cut down and the barrel does not belong. The images attached.

What's even more, the complete armory of the Counts of Giech was sold by Sotheby's in two sales in 1974. The catalogs together with a complete documentation are in in my library. This gun was not included in the sales as it never existed before the way it looks now!

In order to demonstrate what an original Giech musket looks like I attach photos of the piece in my collection, from part II of the sale, 19 Nov 1974, lot 268 (misprinted as lot 266 in the catalog), the catalog photo depicting my piece (on top) together with another similar from the same series. Please note that the barrels and locks of all genuine (!) Giech muskets were SVL marked!

The color photos at the bottom show my Giech musket, lot 268, overall length 172 cm, the stock of characteristic shape (!) and stained brown, the forestock with no provision for a ramrod (!) and mounted with a small hook.

That's exactly what all original Giech muskets branded with that coat-of-arms looked like. Now compare the Bolk piece ...

The Giech and Könitz coats-of-arms attached at the end.


Sorry, and best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

The other original Giech musket illustrated in the 1974 catalog (lot 267), the barrel of somewhat heavier construction than on mine, now in another German private collection.

m

[Jean-Marc S.]

Thanks Michael for the very interesting information. I did not know the actual difference between an arquebus and a musket (now I know).

[Jean-Marc S.]

Hi Michael,

Although the coat-of-arms on the butt stocks are the same, the shapes of these pictured weapons (wooden butt stocks and metal parts) are clearly different...

jm

[Matchlock]

An arquebus was a relatively short and light 15th to early-16th c. handgun, of an overall length of usually ca. 70-110 cm, in the earliest period without a lock and later equipped with either a tinderlock or matchlock, a wheellock, or a combination of both mechanisms.

I realize that this terminology is often improperly used, even by eyperts of auction houses and museums.

Attached are four characteristic early-16th c. matchlock arquebuses from my collection, the third from top dated 1539, their overall lengths ranging from 78 to 111 cm.


Best,
m

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Jean-Marc S.

Hi Michael,

Although the coat-of-arms on the butt stocks are the same, the shapes of these pictured weapons (wooden butt stocks and metal parts) are clearly different...

jm

That's exactly what I meant when stating that the Bolk 'musket' was a composite piece, not originally belonging together in its main parts and probably built around an original - and crudely altered! - stock fragment.

Now I feel pressed to get more detailed:

I am convinced that the butt stock has been altered in its original contours; the top end of the butt is obviously replaced, all the worm holes are filled with wax, the originally rough and brown beechwood surface has been inadequately polished up to resemble that of 18th c. sporting guns and the black color is also inadequate and brandnew. All Giech muskets had brown stocks of characteristic shape - see attachments. The shape of the rounded 'belly' butt of that piece did not appear before the 1650's and must have been altered in shape. Otherwise it is impossible that is was branded with a coat-of-arms refererring to a marriage of 1633, provided that the brand is not a fake. The lock plate is of inadequate shape of ca. 1620 (!), the serpentine another inapt replacement of the 1650's (!) and both do not match the barrel regarding the pitting of their surfaces. The barrel bears what seems to be an Austrian Bindenschild mark - instead of the correct Suhl marks - and most probably does not belong to the stock.

Again, the barrel and stock, at best, have been cut down by some 20 cm and the butt and fore end fore end both are of inadequate shape; the stock should be exactly as long as the barrel.

I know that there were at lot of poorest fragments of stocks and barrels in the Giech armory sales that have not been referred to in the catalogs and that were split up among dealers - of course in order to be 'built up' and form 'complete' new guns.

In short: the 'musket' you posted - though you did not mention it I guess that I am right and it is the one identified by me at first sight and just on the basis of a few close-ups - is a mere fantasy piece trying to evoque the impression of a 17th c. musket to the inexperienced eye, obviously built around a completely different looking stock fragment branded with the Giech and Könitz arms.

I have recorded literally each and every 16th and 17th c. 'military' arquebus and musket ever published anywhere, and I usually recognize any single piece just by a few details.

I attach photos of two muskets from my collection, the one on top ca. 1630 and the one below ca. 1650, after the Thirty Wars War was over, the latter showing the modern Baroque belly-butt shape resembling the one on the 'musket' in discussion, with no pronounced edges present any longer. Please closely study all details, serpentines etc., and note the original rough beechwood surfaces.


m

[Jean-Marc S.]

Hello,

Just found a previous post showing a very similar Suhl made german matchlock rifle, dated to 1592.

jm

[Matchlock]

Exactly, J.-M.,

Though it is not actually a rifle but a smooth-bore Suhl wall gun, sold Christie's, and dated 1592 on the barrel.

This particular shape of the lock late, oriented towards and pretending to be a higher-quailty wheellock, was especially preferred by Suhl makers from the late 1580's to the early 1620's.

Here are the barrel and lock marks of that piece.

m

[Jean-Marc S.]

Thanks Super Michael