Ottoman?

motan · 20th July 2019, 09:50 PM

Hi,
I have had this bowl for several years now, but I was not aware of the existence of this forum. I bought it with little information from the seller, but I did some research. I think that it is a Hammam bowl, probably Ottoman, probably late 19th c. What do you think?

ALEX · 20th July 2019, 10:40 PM

Hi Motan,
This is Asian, Sri Lanka or Siam (Thai) bowl, probably for Songkran water festival. It is most likely silver. Are there any marks or inscriptions?

motan · 21st July 2019, 02:29 PM

Hi Alex,
Thank you very much for the information. I am a little surprised, but that is because I don't know anything about South and East Asia, so it didn't occur to me..
Do you have a picture of a such bowl that you could share?

Battara · 21st July 2019, 09:33 PM

By the hues I see in the metal, I think the silver is less than sterling, perhaps even close to coin silver.

motan · 21st July 2019, 11:24 PM

Hi Battara,
I think you are right. Even when polished, the silver is too dark to be high grade. However, I could not care less because I bought it for the its aesthetic appeal and for next to nothing. I am not going to sell it either.

Alex,
After I have read your response, I went looking again for information. It is amazing how hammam bowls and Songkran festival bowls look alike. I still think mine is an Ottoman hammam bowl though. The decorations could well be Sri-Lankan or Thai, but what makes me think it's a hammam bowl are the dimensions and proportions, which I failed to mention in my first post.
Both types of bowls come in different sizes and proportions, but mine is very large (27 cm diameter) and shallow (9 cm high), whereas Songkran bowls tend to be smaller, usually 11-17 cm and deeper in proportion.

ALEX · 22nd July 2019, 11:03 AM

Hi Motan,
The floral pattern as well as overall shape is not of Ottoman hammam bowl.
It is Asian, I believe Malaysian. Here is Malay bowl of similar size (25 x 7 cm). This one has a Keris/Kris part of central decoration, so easy to identify.

motan · 22nd July 2019, 01:44 PM

Thanks again Alex,
I am now convinced. This example is remarkably similar to mine. Just to show you what has mislead me, I attached an example of an Ottoman hammam bowl, or at least it was presented as one.

ALEX · 22nd July 2019, 02:51 PM

Yes, the last image is Ottoman hammam bowl indeed. It combines Ottoman and Asian influences evidenced in mihrab and lotus flower designs. The former bowl has similar looking elements, so its easy to attribute it to Ottoman.

20th July 2019, 09:50 PM	#1
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Ottoman? Hi, I have had this bowl for several years now, but I was not aware of the existence of this forum. I bought it with little information from the seller, but I did some research. I think that it is a Hammam bowl, probably Ottoman, probably late 19th c. What do you think? Attached Images

22nd July 2019, 11:03 AM	#6
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Hi Motan, The floral pattern as well as overall shape is not of Ottoman hammam bowl. It is Asian, I believe Malaysian. Here is Malay bowl of similar size (25 x 7 cm). This one has a Keris/Kris part of central decoration, so easy to identify. Attached Images

22nd July 2019, 01:44 PM	#7
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Thanks again Alex, I am now convinced. This example is remarkably similar to mine. Just to show you what has mislead me, I attached an example of an Ottoman hammam bowl, or at least it was presented as one. Attached Images

20th July 2019, 10:40 PM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Hi Motan, This is Asian, Sri Lanka or Siam (Thai) bowl, probably for Songkran water festival. It is most likely silver. Are there any marks or inscriptions?

21st July 2019, 02:29 PM	#3
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi Alex, Thank you very much for the information. I am a little surprised, but that is because I don't know anything about South and East Asia, so it didn't occur to me.. Do you have a picture of a such bowl that you could share?

21st July 2019, 09:33 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	By the hues I see in the metal, I think the silver is less than sterling, perhaps even close to coin silver.

21st July 2019, 11:24 PM	#5
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi Battara, I think you are right. Even when polished, the silver is too dark to be high grade. However, I could not care less because I bought it for the its aesthetic appeal and for next to nothing. I am not going to sell it either. Alex, After I have read your response, I went looking again for information. It is amazing how hammam bowls and Songkran festival bowls look alike. I still think mine is an Ottoman hammam bowl though. The decorations could well be Sri-Lankan or Thai, but what makes me think it's a hammam bowl are the dimensions and proportions, which I failed to mention in my first post. Both types of bowls come in different sizes and proportions, but mine is very large (27 cm diameter) and shallow (9 cm high), whereas Songkran bowls tend to be smaller, usually 11-17 cm and deeper in proportion.

22nd July 2019, 02:51 PM	#8
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Yes, the last image is Ottoman hammam bowl indeed. It combines Ottoman and Asian influences evidenced in mihrab and lotus flower designs. The former bowl has similar looking elements, so its easy to attribute it to Ottoman.