Keris Ligan

[Rick]

I have heard of this dapur but have yet to see one .
I understand that this form is indigenous to Bali and Lombok .
My curiousity is piqued; can any of our members enlighten me more on this subject or provide a picture of an example ?
I have been led to believe that this form is larger than most Bali - Lombok kerises .


Anyone care to comment ?

[Rick]

No one has one ??

[brekele]

Hi Rick, Ligan came from word of LIGA. in Javanese term (Jawi Kawi), Liga mean without clothes (Ngeliga = Ora kelamben). So, in Java ...the keris Ligan is a keris without warangka.
Never heard keris dapur Ligan in Lombok or Bali

I read in one of webside that LIGAN = Keris from Bali and Lombok with a Pedang shaped blade.

Is it possible that KERIS LIGAN = KERIS PEDANGAN?

Here I have pics of Keris Pedangan (big one with 55 cm blade only).
(Small blue pen at the top corner of the pic just to compare).

[Rick]

Thank you for responding Brekele; I'll bet you are correct in your assesment of this term .
I had heard that these were longer than the average Bali keris .

I'm not sure that I see much resemblance to a pedang in the blade profile though .

I'm most grateful to you .

Best,

Rick

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, Brekele is correct in his interpretation of "ligan", when the word is used in Javanese.

I believe that correctly ngliga means "without a shirt", which is what "ora kelamben" also means, so its not "without clothes", but "without a shirt". Still, near enough.

Again in Javanese "ngliga" when applied to a weapon, means "to unsheath" (the weapon).

Ligan correctly means "unsheathed", not lacking sheath, but removed from the sheath, so in Javanese, a keris ligan is an unsheathed keris.

However, the ligan as weapon is a Bali/Lombok creation.

Here is what Lalu Djelengga says about it:-

KERIS PEDANG/LIGAN

Adalah keris lurus berbentuk pedang, atau pedang berbentuk keris.Disebut keris karena pangkalnya seperti keris,lengkap dengan ganjanya, dan disebut pedang karena bilahnya seperti bentuk pedang. Baik bahan maupun tata cara pembuatannya sama dengan pola pembuatan keris ,sehingga dipastikan berpamor dan berisi, tentu saja selama sementara belum ada kegiatan pemalsuan.
Biasanya masih diberikan sarung seperti wrangka keris.

A loose translation of this would be:-

There is a straight keris that is shaped like a pedang, or a pedang that is shaped like a keris. Its called a keris because basically its like a keris, complete with ganja, and called a pedang because its blade is like the shape of a pedang. Its material, and the way it is made is the same as a keris, while it certainly has pamor and is "berisi" ( has some sort of spirit in it---AM) it is certain that there is not yet any activity to make fakes.
Normally it is given a wrongko like a keris.

I only know the name from what Lalu Djelenga has written, but he seems to know and understand Bali/Lombok weaponry better than adequately, so for myself, I'm more than prepared to accept his assurance that this is the name for it in Bali/Lombok.

I've seen a couple of types of these ligan things. some have a blade that is very keris-like except for the absence of a gandik and blumbangan, and some fancy file work directly under the ganja; others have half the back edge of the blade without an edge.

[gwirya]

Dear all,
I recently acquired this ligan (pedang keris) from Lombok. I think it fits the description from Ir. Lalu Djelenga book, Keris di Lombok. The blade itself is not straight, it curves like a pedang. It also has half the back edge of the blade(inner side of the blade curve) without an edge (see pictures). The pesi itself has a rectangular shape. I dont have a scale handy while taking the pictures; but the blade has approximately 60 cm in length from tip of the blade to the pesi end. (two pieces of A4 photocopy paper combine together in length)
Any idea how old is this? Pamor type?
Any comments positive or negative will be appreciated

[Marcokeris]

IMO the nice blade seems old (pamor Walang Sinuduk?) but hit not so old.
The Solo keris' sarong wood (Cendana?) seems fantastic

[semar]

Hello guys I don`t know of this is one keris ligan but the dapur looks like a pedang

semar

[brekele]

Originally Posted by gwirya

Any comments positive or negative will be appreciated

Thanks Gwirya for showing us your keris.
Absolutely nice keris and RARE!!!

[A. G. Maisey]

Marco, in respect of the Solo ladrang,that appearance is more typical of trembalu than cendana.

[Newsteel]

Very good old nice keris pedang gwirya !!!! Has been some time back I'd seen something similar keris pedang with Shiva eyes.

[David]

Originally Posted by Newsteel

Very good old nice keris pedang gwirya !!!! Has been some time back I'd seen something similar keris pedang with Shiva eyes.

You must have missed this thread from this past June.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=ligan

[gwirya]

Originally Posted by semar

Hello guys I don`t know of this is one keris ligan but the dapur looks like a pedang

semar

Hallo semar, I think the keris on the first picture is a keris ligan. In addition to what Alan mentioned above, looking at the pictures of keris ligan in my Keris in Lombok book, it seems like all keris ligan don't have gandik, sekar kacang, jenggot, lambe gajah etc ( all the ricikan on the left side of the keris if you hold the keris as usual). It does have sogokan, bungkul and ada ada. About the size, I am not sure if it has to be bigger than normal Bali/Lombok keris.
To Marcokeris, brekele and Newsteel, thanks for your comments

[Rick]

Of my Ligan .
Note the odd number of open spaces, 7 .

Comments ?

[gwirya]

Originally Posted by Rick

Of my Ligan .
Note the odd number of open spaces, 7 .

Comments ?

Honestly,first impression, spooky , It reminds me of Jack O Lantern (the carved pumpkin). Rick, does your picture have anything to do with the upcoming halloween? (joking)
I browse my Keris in Lombok book by Ir. Lalu Djelenga, and found very little information regarding this open space, in fact so far I found none mentioning about the "Shiva's eyes". There are only a few keris in the pictures that have shiva's eyes. Does anyone have any information about the Shiva's eyes?

[Rick]

Hmmm, you're right Gwirya .
I noticed that while processing the shot last night; any way it gives a good silhouette image of the spaces .

Trick or Treat anyone ??

[ganjawulung]

A ligan -- either Lombok or Balinese -- with "double gandhik". Regol ligan? It has two sogokanS in each side. I am not sure what "angun-angunan" (dhapur) it is...

GANJAWULUNG

[ganjawulung]

These are more close ups on the sogokan and the sor-soran of this ligan (keris pedang)...

GANJAWULUNG

[Gustav]

I hope, it is a keris ligan. Length: 49 cm. An interesting connexion of blade and ganja.

[Rick]

Is there a change from dull to sharp a little more than halfway to the point on the greneng side of the blade, Gustav ?

If not, then you have an interesting Bali/Lombok keris form .

[Rick]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

These are more close ups on the sogokan and the sor-soran of this ligan (keris pedang)...

GANJAWULUNG

An interesting thing about the ganja is that it echos the crossguard form of a Javanese pedang .

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Rick

An interesting thing about the ganja is that it echos the crossguard form of a Javanese pedang .

Rick, to me the sor-soran part more looks like a "regol" dhapur of keris. A regol has two gandhiks, and no wadidang... (in "putihan" condition, this ligan's iron looks like 'wesi malela'...)

GANJAWULUNG

[Gustav]

[QUOTE=Rick]Is there a change from dull to sharp a little more than halfway to the point on the greneng side of the blade, Gustav ?

Rick,
there isn't such change, the blade is otherwise a current keris blade.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Rick, to me the sor-soran part more looks like a "regol" dhapur of keris. A regol has two gandhiks, and no wadidang... (in "putihan" condition, this ligan's iron looks like 'wesi malela'...)

GANJAWULUNG

Indeed it does .

[Rick]

[QUOTE=Gustav]

Originally Posted by Rick

Is there a change from dull to sharp a little more than halfway to the point on the greneng side of the blade, Gustav ?

Rick,
there isn't such change, the blade is otherwise a current keris blade.

Gustav, I have never seen a ganja fitted as yours is .
(of course that doesn't mean much )

Anyone else seen this feature before in a Bali/Lombok keris ?

Also, it's beautiful .

[Ghaniyya]

Originally Posted by gwirya

Dear all,
I recently acquired this ligan (pedang keris) from Lombok. I think it fits the description from Ir. Lalu Djelenga book, Keris di Lombok. The blade itself is not straight, it curves like a pedang. It also has half the back edge of the blade(inner side of the blade curve) without an edge (see pictures). The pesi itself has a rectangular shape. I dont have a scale handy while taking the pictures; but the blade has approximately 60 cm in length from tip of the blade to the pesi end. (two pieces of A4 photocopy paper combine together in length)
Any idea how old is this? Pamor type?
Any comments positive or negative will be appreciated

So beatifully....
look at from the iron, it's the same as Majapahit era.

[Paul B.]

How about my LIGAN keris?
Blade size 47,5 cm, overall 67 cm. That's quite a large one.
Kocet-kocetan might not belong to it (as it is from Lombok?) but the selut is from gold / suasa so a valuable part of the handle.

[jagabuwana]

That's stunning, Paul.

I learned a lot in this thread. Had I not known any better I would have thought I was looking at some kind of keris dhapur sepang.

[Anthony G.]

Modern era Bali made keris Ligan.

Correct?

[Sajen]

Here my honest example, 76 cm inside scabbard, 71 cm without, blade without pesi 57 cm. Last picture show it together with a huge Moro kris for size comparison.