Kachin/Naga Dao

scratch · 20th September 2008, 09:55 PM

G'day
I think these are Very

kahnjar1 · 20th September 2008, 11:06 PM

Yes VERY cool indeed. I have been trying to get hold of one of these for quite some time. Any ideas?
Regards Stu

Gavin Nugent · 21st September 2008, 03:02 AM

Very cool Scratch, and a pair to boot!! You collection is growing with more quality items AAA+.
I look forward to viewing further images.

Gav

scratch · 21st September 2008, 10:38 AM

G'day

Hello Khanjar and Freebooter, both pieces show obvious signs of hairpin lamination. Without cleaning it is not obvious in photos. I was quite stunned to get these with fitting scabbards, I love the shape and texture of these.Down the track I think they will display well and tell their own story.
Thank you both for your interest, I wil add some photos.

Cheers,

Dan

scratch · 21st September 2008, 11:20 AM

With flash.

Bill M · 21st September 2008, 01:44 PM

Neat! I also have always liked these! Have pictures of a pair of mine, somewhere.....

scratch · 21st September 2008, 02:21 PM

Hello Bill

I enjoyed your Kachin dao post very much.
The dao with ivory buttplate with lovely design is a beauty as is the other.Thank you for sharing.
How many types of these daos are there?, These are not the topend variety. Would the handles be bamboo root?

Cheers

Flavio · 21st September 2008, 05:54 PM

Hi scratch, I think you have to clean and than etch the blades. You will find some nice laminations.

Regards
Flavio

Mark · 22nd September 2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Hi scratch, I think you have to clean and than etch the blades. You will find some nice laminations.

Regards
Flavio

I agree. You will be pleasantly surprised. A double-hairpin is characteristic of the highest quality Kachin dao (they would call it a "nhtu," by the way). Writing of the dao made by the Hkahkus, Hanson states:

"There are at least four varieties, of which one with clear, wavy streaks of steel running down the blade, is the most valuable and appreciated." Hanson, O., "The Kachin, Their Customs & Traditions," (1913), p. 76.

Yours might look something like this:

paolo · 22nd September 2008, 06:18 PM

Or like my one
Paolo

Bill M · 22nd September 2008, 08:15 PM

Since this is turning into the Kachin Dao thread, I'll dig up a few of mine

Actually I am glad that I did. These are really neat sword types they all speak to me. Fun to swing around.

Like Scratch said in the original post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scratch

G'day
I think these are Very

paolo · 23rd September 2008, 01:38 PM

Very nice.
Paolo

Mark · 23rd September 2008, 04:20 PM

Does anyone else have a jawbone on their scabbard? The one I posted above has half of a small jawbone of what I think is a small cat tied to the shoulder loop, and I see that one of Bill's does, too. I came across this description of a similar feature:

"A dha in its half-scabbard, fastened to a bamboo hoop, decorated with charms, such as the canine or molar of a leopard or tiger, and suspended to a red cloth band ornamented with cowries, is also slung over the right shoulder." Anderson, "A Report of the Expedition to Western Yunnan" (1871), p. 121.

Bill M · 23rd September 2008, 04:34 PM

Mark, Here is a closeup of my jawbone. Could be a tiger or some other big cat. The teeth on mine look similar to yours.

I am also curious about the symbol on the end of my hilt. Any ideas? Anybody else have a symbol like this?

Tim Simmons · 23rd September 2008, 06:54 PM

I also have one with part of a small cats jaw. Grrrrrrrr meiow

Left side of lower mandible to be precise. Correction upper right.

scratch · 25th September 2008, 04:54 AM

G'day

Flavio,Mark,Paolo,Bill and Tim,
Thank you for your Info, thoughts and sharing such wonderful examples!!!

Bill, is the symbol outlined in silver? does this motif appear in any of the textiles,crafts of region?
Were the smiths also shamens?
I am ignorant of Kachin culture, any good links please?
Cheers

Daniel

Mark · 25th September 2008, 06:37 PM

As far as I know, there were no shamanistic aspects to bladesmithing among the Kachin. It is not considerred to be a prestigeous occupation, except among the Duleng, who were (and I suppose may still be) famous for the quality of their blades. See, Leach, "Political Systems of Highland Burma," (1954), pp. 57 & 251. This seems to correlate with the social/political structure of the communities - in so-called gumsa societies, which emphasize heritary rule, blacksmiths are accorded little status, while in the more egalitarian or merit-based gumlao societies, like the Duleng Kachin, it is seen as a high-status profession. Shan society is predominantly gumsa, and also views blacksmithing as a low-class occupation (in Leach's words, "iron-working is a task for slaves"). p. 251. Perhaps the distinction comes from viewing a blacksmith as a provider of material to the ruling class, a "tool" as it were, as opposed to someone who provides a valuable service for the community. Artisans of all kinds were considered very valuable stategic assets throughout the history of the region, and after a war were regularly uprooted and deported to the victor's territory. Perhaps another reason an autocratic/heirarchical society might view them more as chattels than as valued members of the community.

20th September 2008, 09:55 PM	#1
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Kachin/Naga Dao G'day I think these are Very Attached Images Last edited by scratch; 20th September 2008 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Incomplete wording

20th September 2008, 11:06 PM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	I AGREE!! Yes VERY cool indeed. I have been trying to get hold of one of these for quite some time. Any ideas? Regards Stu

21st September 2008, 03:02 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Very cool Very cool Scratch, and a pair to boot!! You collection is growing with more quality items AAA+. I look forward to viewing further images. Gav

21st September 2008, 10:38 AM	#4
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	G'day Hello Khanjar and Freebooter, both pieces show obvious signs of hairpin lamination. Without cleaning it is not obvious in photos. I was quite stunned to get these with fitting scabbards, I love the shape and texture of these.Down the track I think they will display well and tell their own story. Thank you both for your interest, I wil add some photos. Cheers, Dan Attached Images

21st September 2008, 11:20 AM	#5
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	With flash. Attached Images

21st September 2008, 01:44 PM	#6
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Neat! I also have always liked these! Have pictures of a pair of mine, somewhere.....

21st September 2008, 02:21 PM	#7
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Hello Bill I enjoyed your Kachin dao post very much. The dao with ivory buttplate with lovely design is a beauty as is the other.Thank you for sharing. How many types of these daos are there?, These are not the topend variety. Would the handles be bamboo root? Cheers

21st September 2008, 05:54 PM	#8
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi scratch, I think you have to clean and than etch the blades. You will find some nice laminations. Regards Flavio

22nd September 2008, 06:18 PM	#10
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Or like my one Paolo Attached Images

23rd September 2008, 01:38 PM	#12
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Very nice. Paolo

23rd September 2008, 04:20 PM	#13
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Does anyone else have a jawbone on their scabbard? The one I posted above has half of a small jawbone of what I think is a small cat tied to the shoulder loop, and I see that one of Bill's does, too. I came across this description of a similar feature: "A dha in its half-scabbard, fastened to a bamboo hoop, decorated with charms, such as the canine or molar of a leopard or tiger, and suspended to a red cloth band ornamented with cowries, is also slung over the right shoulder." Anderson, "A Report of the Expedition to Western Yunnan" (1871), p. 121. Attached Images

23rd September 2008, 04:34 PM	#14
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Mark, Here is a closeup of my jawbone. Could be a tiger or some other big cat. The teeth on mine look similar to yours. I am also curious about the symbol on the end of my hilt. Any ideas? Anybody else have a symbol like this? Attached Images

23rd September 2008, 06:54 PM	#15
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Pussycat dolls I also have one with part of a small cats jaw. Grrrrrrrr meiow Left side of lower mandible to be precise. Correction upper right. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 23rd September 2008 at 08:12 PM. Reason: spelling + correction

25th September 2008, 04:54 AM	#16
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	G'day Flavio,Mark,Paolo,Bill and Tim, Thank you for your Info, thoughts and sharing such wonderful examples!!! Bill, is the symbol outlined in silver? does this motif appear in any of the textiles,crafts of region? Were the smiths also shamens? I am ignorant of Kachin culture, any good links please? Cheers Daniel

25th September 2008, 06:37 PM	#17
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	As far as I know, there were no shamanistic aspects to bladesmithing among the Kachin. It is not considerred to be a prestigeous occupation, except among the Duleng, who were (and I suppose may still be) famous for the quality of their blades. See, Leach, "Political Systems of Highland Burma," (1954), pp. 57 & 251. This seems to correlate with the social/political structure of the communities - in so-called gumsa societies, which emphasize heritary rule, blacksmiths are accorded little status, while in the more egalitarian or merit-based gumlao societies, like the Duleng Kachin, it is seen as a high-status profession. Shan society is predominantly gumsa, and also views blacksmithing as a low-class occupation (in Leach's words, "iron-working is a task for slaves"). p. 251. Perhaps the distinction comes from viewing a blacksmith as a provider of material to the ruling class, a "tool" as it were, as opposed to someone who provides a valuable service for the community. Artisans of all kinds were considered very valuable stategic assets throughout the history of the region, and after a war were regularly uprooted and deported to the victor's territory. Perhaps another reason an autocratic/heirarchical society might view them more as chattels than as valued members of the community.