Balinese/Lombok pedang

Maurice · 5th July 2013, 07:21 AM

Yesterday I received my latest find!

It's a very interesting pedang, as you can see for yourself on the images....

It has great patina and a very attractive blade, full of Quran verses and other decorations, inlaid in silver at both sides and the spine.

If someone would dare trying to translate the text on the blade, I will upload some close ups...

Maurice

kronckew · 5th July 2013, 08:04 AM

ooh! them fullers are gorgeous!

kai · 5th July 2013, 09:24 AM

Quote:

If someone would dare trying to translate the text on the blade, I will upload some close ups...

Come on, Maurice, post'em close-ups!

Left side of the blade is orientated correctly (sequence right to left, i.e. base of blade to tip).

The right side is upside down - just flip it over (after doing the left side pics) and again go from the base of the blade towards the tip...

Maurice · 5th July 2013, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Come on, Maurice, post'em close-ups!

OK, I'm glad you can give me the translation than!

Maurice · 5th July 2013, 09:33 AM

Left:

Maurice · 5th July 2013, 09:34 AM

Right:

Maurice · 5th July 2013, 09:35 AM

Spine:

VVV · 5th July 2013, 09:49 AM

Superb find!!!

Could you take a picture of the hilt from the side facing down (along the edge)?
It might be the rarer Garuda-variation, instead of the regular makara/flower bud.

Michael

kai · 5th July 2013, 09:50 AM

Congrats, Maurice, nice score!

Got the blade "washed" recently? It looks very dark while the inlay is shiny; I'd give the silver on the hilt and scabbard a gentle polish, too.

These pedang come from all over the archipelago - mostly along the arc from Sumatra to Sumbawa with a bit of Banjar/etc. thrown in. Given the Islamic script, I guess we can exclude Bali as the origin of this piece.

Hopefully the inscription will give us some clues... From what I can glean from the pics, the inlay looks a bit crude though. And the inlay is very intact. I'd posit that the inlay got added later but you get a much better idea from handling it up and close - what can you read from the blade, workmanship, patina, etc.?

Regards,
Kai

Maurice · 5th July 2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Superb find!!!

Could you take a picture of the hilt from the side facing down (along the edge)?
It might be the rarer Garuda-variation, instead of the regular makara/flower bud.

Michael

I hope this image will do for now?
Just made it with my cellphone....

Maurice

Maurice · 5th July 2013, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Congrats, Maurice, nice score!

Got the blade "washed" recently?It looks very dark while the inlay is shiny; I'd give the silver on the hilt and scabbard a gentle polish, too.

These pedang come from all over the archipelago - mostly along the arc from Sumatra to Sumbawa with a bit of Banjar/etc. thrown in. Given the Islamic script, I guess we can exclude Bali as the origin of this piece.

Hopefully the inscription will give us some clues... From what I can glean from the pics, the inlay looks a bit crude though. And the inlay is very intact. I'd posit that the inlay got added later but you get a much better idea from handling it up and close - what can you read from the blade, workmanship, patina, etc.?

Regards,
Kai

Kai, the blade had not been washed recently. You can see the lamination when having a close look to the blade. It also smells not "washed", and it's just the colour I've seen on old blades, which turn out black from dirt or whatsoever...
I recently cleaned a Javanese sword with brass inlay. You could hardly see the brass inlay before. But after giving it a good rub with some dishsoap, the brass inlay looks like new, but the blade is still very black. No matter how hard I rub, it will stay black!
If you mean this with "washed" I think that's what happened.

The inlay is far from crude, but probably you think so because of the close ups. I never have seen a better inlay on these kind of swords.
It looks like it was done with a finewriter, but it isn't. When looking at the images of the whole blade you can see how smooth it looks, and not crude as done recently.
The inlay like this, is done the way it was occurring on other 19th century blades.
Also when you look on the last image of #5, you can see a part which isn't rubbed as good as the other part of the blade.

Ofcourse I agree the inlay could be recenter as the sword, but it's very good craftmanship and also done a long, long time ago..

About the silver, I leave it as it is. Love the patina more as the shiny silverwork.. :0

Sometimes you've got to have it in hands. This one is such piece you can't show it on images. You have to see and feel it.
The blade is very smoothly forged, high quality. Also the inlay is very good work, and therefore it's all there and not (partly) gone allready (as seen on quality inlay of old blades). This in combination with an enormous patina on the handle (which I've not seen often on these pedangs, probably because people cleaning the silverwork and decide to clean the whole handle instead?), tells me I need to keep this one in my own collection, though it isn't Borneo and I'm not attracted to these kind of pedangs normally!

Maurice

CharlesS · 5th July 2013, 12:26 PM

Excellent craftsmanship on this sort of pedang, with a gorgeous blade. The dark looks more to be patina than 'a wash', though as Kai suggested, I have seen these washed to highlight the inlay.

If I were a betting man I would say the inlay was done within the last 50 years and far younger then the sword. The Arabic makes it somehow seem Sumatran to me, but of course it could have originated in so many places as these styles were supremely popular.

Congrats on a truly nice pick up!

Please see:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...umatran+swords

Maurice · 5th July 2013, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Excellent craftsmanship on this sort of pedang, with a gorgeous blade. The dark looks more to be patina than 'a wash', though as Kai suggested, I have seen these washed to highlight the inlay.

If I were a betting man I would say the inlay was done within the last 50 years and far younger then the sword. The Arabic makes it somehow seem Sumatran to me, but of course it could have originated in so many places as these styles were supremely popular.

Congrats on a truly nice pick up!

Please see:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...umatran+swords

Yes, but not in this case. This one hasn't been washed. It's definately patina.
Beneath the surface you can see a very nice pattern in the blade, but it's hard to get it on camera. And I decided to leave the piece as it is, without any cleaning whatsoever.

Why do you think it's 50 years ago done? (just curious).
I think it would be done much rougher if it was only 50 years ago.
But who knows, maybe we get an translation with a date or maybe it says "made in Taiwan" :-)
Till than I believe it's much more older, though not as old as the blade.

I'm allowed to post next image. It's from a sikin panjang. Look at the craftmanship. Definately 19th century, but it looks "rough" also. But this is because it's done as thin and delicately as the inlay in my pedang.
I would like to see the inlay craftmanship in other blades which should be 19th century or older, just to see the difference (but than I want examples with as delicately inlay as the pedang).

Ofcourse I knew your thread: Very nice pieces Charles: I specially like pedang 2 and 6.

Maurice

VVV · 5th July 2013, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

I hope this image will do for now?
Just made it with my cellphone....

Maurice

Nope, I meant lower (from the ferrule and up).

Michael

PS It's from Lombok, not Sumatra.

Maurice · 5th July 2013, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Nope, I meant lower (from the ferrule and up).

Michael

PS It's from Lombok, not Sumatra.

Oh yes,....
Again with my celphone.

Thank you for noticing it's Lombok.

Maurice

CharlesS · 5th July 2013, 05:39 PM

VVV,

I am curious what about this piece assures its origin is from Lombok? Are there characteristics of it that make that a definite?

David · 5th July 2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

VVV,

I am curious what about this piece assures its origin is from Lombok? Are there characteristics of it that make that a definite?

I am also curious what the indicators are for the origin of this piece. How would a similar pedang from Sumatra differ? It's not that i doubt Michael, but certainly it is more helpful for future considerations if we can all come to an understanding of what these indicators actually are.

If indeed these inlays are Islamic text i would agree that Bali is unlikely while Lombok is still a possibility. Thought ethnically diverse it does seem that a small majority of the inhabitants are indeed Muslim.
In any case a very nice sword.

Battara · 6th July 2013, 04:29 AM

I am with Charles in thinking this may be from Sumatra due to the Arabic. Several times "Allah" is present, perhaps in some bismallah or in Qur'anic verse. It would be better that an Arabic reader try to render some type of translation. I don't think it is jawi (though I could be wrong).

Jonno · 6th July 2013, 06:29 AM

Nice item Maurice!

My opinion, Sumatra. For sure.
The inlay can be done later, but seems to be old.
(Islamic text)

John

VVV · 6th July 2013, 07:17 AM

Most important, the original collection tag said Lombok on it. ;-)
Otherwise, the hilt is more square than the ones usually seen from Sumatra (but often seen on Lombok) and the blade has fullers. On Lombok the Sasak are Muslim.

If you look at the lower part of the hilt there is a beak and a bird face (Garuda). I suspect that this also is a Lombok-feature.
Maybe Maurice can bring it out better with new pictures?

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 6th July 2013, 07:44 AM

Do we know when it was originally collected in Lombok?

Jonno · 6th July 2013, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Most important, the original collection tag said Lombok on it. ;-)
Otherwise, the hilt is more square than the ones usually seen from Sumatra (but often seen on Lombok) and the blade has fullers. On Lombok the Sasak are Muslim.

If you look at the lower part of the hilt there is a beak and a bird face (Garuda). I suspect that this also is a Lombok-feature.
Maybe Maurice can bring it out better with new pictures?

Michael

I think you're right michael.
Perhaps the text-inlay done after the Dutch intervention in 1894.

CharlesS · 6th July 2013, 11:34 AM

I am not necessarily saying it's Sumatran, I just didn't understand why it had to be Lombok, and I must have missed anything about a tag.

Good observations.

Maurice · 6th July 2013, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Most important, the original collection tag said Lombok on it. ;-)

If you look at the lower part of the hilt there is a beak and a bird face (Garuda). I suspect that this also is a Lombok-feature.
Maybe Maurice can bring it out better with new pictures?

Yes Michael, that's right! :-)

I will make some decent pictures within the next few days of the handle.

It has floral leaf motifs all over, but looking at the shape there's indeed some kind of mouth visible and it looks like I can see some kind of nose? (just like a macara, only instead of the upper jaw it's tog an elobarated lower jaw).
But maybe it's just my imagination and I see the wrong presentation in it.

Also I looks that there's a bit in the front missing. But if so very long time ago as it has the same patina. But it might be that it's all intact and it meant carved like this...

Maurice

Maurice · 6th July 2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonno

I think you're right michael.
Perhaps the text-inlay done after the Dutch intervention in 1894.

Hi John,

Thanks for your approval of depicting the inlay of the sikin panjang!
Let's hope we find somebody who can tell us more about the text....

Maurice

Maurice · 6th July 2013, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Do we know when it was originally collected in Lombok?

Unfortunately I don't know anything about it or it's provenance...

Maurice · 6th July 2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I am not necessarily saying it's Sumatran, I just didn't understand why it had to be Lombok, and I must have missed anything about a tag.

Good observations.

Michael's remark about the tag was meant like a little joke.
There was a tag saying Lombok on it, but it was a recent one so I detached it.

Maurice

Spunjer · 6th July 2013, 01:41 PM

yowza!!! heck of pedang, bro! nice catch!!! would be interested at the translation on this pedang

Maurice · 6th July 2013, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

yowza!!! heck of pedang, bro! nice catch!!! would be interested at the translation on this pedang

Thanks Ron,

Still waiting if here's somebody who would like to translate it for us...

Maurice

CharlesS · 6th July 2013, 06:00 PM

Maurice,

Just for clarity because forums and emails carry no connotation and can be easily misinterpreted...like I did not understand that MM was joking about the tag!...I have no problem with anything that has been said about the sword, but if there are specific characteristics that make this a "for sure" Lombok made piece, of course I want to learn about them. I think I see what VVV is getting at about a more "squared" appearance, but I think we would need more complete pics and perhaps side-by-side examples.

5th July 2013, 07:21 AM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,334	Balinese/Lombok pedang Yesterday I received my latest find! It's a very interesting pedang, as you can see for yourself on the images.... It has great patina and a very attractive blade, full of Quran verses and other decorations, inlaid in silver at both sides and the spine. If someone would dare trying to translate the text on the blade, I will upload some close ups... Maurice Attached Images Last edited by Maurice; 5th July 2013 at 08:14 AM. Reason: bad english...

5th July 2013, 09:34 AM	#6
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,334	Right side of the blade Right: Attached Images

5th July 2013, 09:35 AM	#7
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,334	Backside of the blade Spine: Attached Images

5th July 2013, 08:04 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	ooh! them fullers are gorgeous!

5th July 2013, 09:33 AM	#5
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,334	Left side of the blade. Left: Attached Images

5th July 2013, 09:49 AM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Superb find!!! Could you take a picture of the hilt from the side facing down (along the edge)? It might be the rarer Garuda-variation, instead of the regular makara/flower bud. Michael

5th July 2013, 09:50 AM	#9
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Congrats, Maurice, nice score! Got the blade "washed" recently? It looks very dark while the inlay is shiny; I'd give the silver on the hilt and scabbard a gentle polish, too. These pedang come from all over the archipelago - mostly along the arc from Sumatra to Sumbawa with a bit of Banjar/etc. thrown in. Given the Islamic script, I guess we can exclude Bali as the origin of this piece. Hopefully the inscription will give us some clues... From what I can glean from the pics, the inlay looks a bit crude though. And the inlay is very intact. I'd posit that the inlay got added later but you get a much better idea from handling it up and close - what can you read from the blade, workmanship, patina, etc.? Regards, Kai

5th July 2013, 12:26 PM	#12
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Excellent craftsmanship on this sort of pedang, with a gorgeous blade. The dark looks more to be patina than 'a wash', though as Kai suggested, I have seen these washed to highlight the inlay. If I were a betting man I would say the inlay was done within the last 50 years and far younger then the sword. The Arabic makes it somehow seem Sumatran to me, but of course it could have originated in so many places as these styles were supremely popular. Congrats on a truly nice pick up! Please see: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...umatran+swords

5th July 2013, 05:39 PM	#16
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	VVV, I am curious what about this piece assures its origin is from Lombok? Are there characteristics of it that make that a definite?

6th July 2013, 04:29 AM	#18
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I am with Charles in thinking this may be from Sumatra due to the Arabic. Several times "Allah" is present, perhaps in some bismallah or in Qur'anic verse. It would be better that an Arabic reader try to render some type of translation. I don't think it is jawi (though I could be wrong).

6th July 2013, 06:29 AM	#19
Jonno Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 51	Nice item Maurice! My opinion, Sumatra. For sure. The inlay can be done later, but seems to be old. (Islamic text) John

6th July 2013, 07:17 AM	#20
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Most important, the original collection tag said Lombok on it. ;-) Otherwise, the hilt is more square than the ones usually seen from Sumatra (but often seen on Lombok) and the blade has fullers. On Lombok the Sasak are Muslim. If you look at the lower part of the hilt there is a beak and a bird face (Garuda). I suspect that this also is a Lombok-feature. Maybe Maurice can bring it out better with new pictures? Michael

6th July 2013, 07:44 AM	#21
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,886	Do we know when it was originally collected in Lombok?

6th July 2013, 11:34 AM	#23
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	I am not necessarily saying it's Sumatran, I just didn't understand why it had to be Lombok, and I must have missed anything about a tag. Good observations.

6th July 2013, 01:41 PM	#28
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	yowza!!! heck of pedang, bro! nice catch!!! would be interested at the translation on this pedang

6th July 2013, 06:00 PM	#30
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Maurice, Just for clarity because forums and emails carry no connotation and can be easily misinterpreted...like I did not understand that MM was joking about the tag!...I have no problem with anything that has been said about the sword, but if there are specific characteristics that make this a "for sure" Lombok made piece, of course I want to learn about them. I think I see what VVV is getting at about a more "squared" appearance, but I think we would need more complete pics and perhaps side-by-side examples.