SEA brass warriors, circa 1930...help ID? comments?

katana · 2nd September 2007, 04:15 PM

Not a weapon...but two interesting warrior statuettes. Not certain as to the origins (Siam? Indonesia?

) circa 1930's. The hair style may help.

One has two 'tonfa' type weapons and the second has lost his ....he has a hole in each hand which line up with each other....probably to hold a spear or staff....rather than two seperate weapons like escrima sticks
Can anyone help ID their origins and suggest what sort of weapon the second would have been holding (so I can make a replacement.) To give an idea of scale....if they were standing upright they would be approx 14" (35 cms) tall.

All comments, suggestions and help gratefully received, thank you

Regards David

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 2nd September 2007, 08:18 PM

That's hair cut en brosse typical of Siam from 1700s onwards . The tonfa like weapon is a Mae Sun Sawk and differs by being tied on at the elbow.

VVV · 2nd September 2007, 08:19 PM

They look like Krabi Krabong players so I guess the other one had dhas?

Michael

PUFF · 3rd September 2007, 03:38 AM

The figures are definitely Siamese.
Mai Sawk or Mai Sun Sawk 's a little different from Tonfa. A Mai Sawk has two sticks on its upper part and one rope loop at its bottom part.

Mai Sawks are usually play with a staff (Plong, Krabong) (represent short and long weapons, symbols for Monkey and Giant fight). So the second guy might holding a staff.

However, if two holes on second guy 's hands are not aligned, a pair of Dahb, Dha 's possile.

Ian · 3rd September 2007, 04:03 PM

Thanks PUFF and ~Alaung_Hpaya~ for the explanations. Do either of you happen to have more examples of these figures from the first half of the 20th C. or earlier, or do you know where we might find furtehr examples on the web? I'm especially interested in older examples (pre-WWII).

Ian.

katana · 3rd September 2007, 05:26 PM

Thank you ~Alaung_Hpaya~, VVV and PUFF for the information

The holes (in the hands) are in line so it seems the figure has lost his staff.
At least that will be easier to replace than two Dha's.

Hi Ian, I have never seen this type of figures before...and I have searched the web in vain for similar examples. To me it is very unlikely that these are 'mass produced'....due to size and the 'subject' matter. I am wondering whether these originally adorned a Krabi Krabong 'school'

I have started to buy ethnic/tribal items to 'compliment' my weapon display, although I have no weapons to 'compliment' these figures

I recently bought an Ashanti brass cast box with symbolic decoration, which, I would like to post. The relavence to weaponary would the symbolism associated with Ashanti knives and swords, would it be OK to do so.

Regards David

Ian · 3rd September 2007, 07:26 PM

Hi David:

Yes, there are a lot of cultural items that can be used to complement the weapons.

If the symbols on the box are similar to those on weapons, that sounds like it would be of direct relevance to edged weapons. We have used a fairly liberal interpretation of "relevance" previously.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

I have started to buy ethnic/tribal items to 'compliment' my weapon display, although I have no weapons to 'compliment' these figures

I recently bought an Ashanti brass cast box with symbolic decoration, which, I would like to post. The relavence to weaponary would the symbolism associated with Ashanti knives and swords, would it be OK to do so.

Regards David

katana · 3rd September 2007, 07:53 PM

Thank Ian

PUFF · 4th September 2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Do either of you happen to have more examples of these figures from the first half of the 20th C. or earlier, or do you know where we might find furtehr examples on the web? I'm especially interested in older examples (pre-WWII).

Ian.

I do not know... brass/bronze figures are not considered very valuable. Most families are not bother putting them on market.

katana · 7th September 2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUFF

I do not know... brass/bronze figures are not considered very valuable. Most families are not bother putting them on market.

Depending on age, subject matter and scarcity brass/bronze figures in the West have value

Are these figures common ? What were they for?They were brought back to the UK in the 1930's and were not 'new' then.

Regards David

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 7th September 2007, 02:15 PM

I would agree with Puff in that there seems to be little market for most brass things in Burma so I would assume Thailand would be similar . I've seen a few Burmese brasses for sale in the UK but they seem to be few and far between ( i think eBay's recently had a Burmese general on a horse carrying a dha and a villager from either the 1800s or early 1900s )

In Burma at least ( and elsewhere ) the real collectible brass items are the "opium weights" and the occasional figures of musicians from the Bagan era . Most of these are already in private collections and so what you will find floating around are recent reproductions .

PUFF · 7th September 2007, 03:15 PM

The most common brass objects are lord Buddha and related stuff. And then household objects. Figgure like this 's quite uncommon to me. It could be souvenier or such

This is an example of tourist objects. Mostly, they are made in modern styles. This 's one of exceptional not-so-modern style.

Brass object with some age rarely appear on the market because they could hardly make a good (antique) price.

katana · 8th September 2007, 12:46 PM

Hi Puff
I see what you mean ...the Muay Thai figures, mass produced and much smaller than the figures I posted are readily available.

http://www.theartofthailand.com/muay...419f5c13d7ca5e

However, in the West. pre WW2 there was little interest in Eastern Martial Arts and therefore no commercial value in trying to sell these figures to tourists. Because these are pre 1930's it strongly suggests that these were not manufactured as tourist 'trinkets'. I appreciate that they are basically a 'lump of metal', but , others that have no interest in edged weapons probably think it strange that we have appreciation of 'sharp lumps of metal'

I cannot find any examples on the web or eBay, which remotely look like my figures

2nd September 2007, 04:15 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	SEA brass warriors, circa 1930...help ID? comments? Not a weapon...but two interesting warrior statuettes. Not certain as to the origins (Siam? Indonesia? ) circa 1930's. The hair style may help. One has two 'tonfa' type weapons and the second has lost his ....he has a hole in each hand which line up with each other....probably to hold a spear or staff....rather than two seperate weapons like escrima sticks Can anyone help ID their origins and suggest what sort of weapon the second would have been holding (so I can make a replacement.) To give an idea of scale....if they were standing upright they would be approx 14" (35 cms) tall. All comments, suggestions and help gratefully received, thank you Regards David Attached Images

2nd September 2007, 08:18 PM	#2
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	That's hair cut en brosse typical of Siam from 1700s onwards . The tonfa like weapon is a Mae Sun Sawk and differs by being tied on at the elbow.

2nd September 2007, 08:19 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	They look like Krabi Krabong players so I guess the other one had dhas? Michael

3rd September 2007, 03:38 AM	#4
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	The figures are definitely Siamese. Mai Sawk or Mai Sun Sawk 's a little different from Tonfa. A Mai Sawk has two sticks on its upper part and one rope loop at its bottom part. Mai Sawks are usually play with a staff (Plong, Krabong) (represent short and long weapons, symbols for Monkey and Giant fight). So the second guy might holding a staff. However, if two holes on second guy 's hands are not aligned, a pair of Dahb, Dha 's possile.

3rd September 2007, 04:03 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Thanks PUFF and ~Alaung_Hpaya~ for the explanations. Do either of you happen to have more examples of these figures from the first half of the 20th C. or earlier, or do you know where we might find furtehr examples on the web? I'm especially interested in older examples (pre-WWII). Ian.

3rd September 2007, 05:26 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thank you ~Alaung_Hpaya~, VVV and PUFF for the information The holes (in the hands) are in line so it seems the figure has lost his staff. At least that will be easier to replace than two Dha's. Hi Ian, I have never seen this type of figures before...and I have searched the web in vain for similar examples. To me it is very unlikely that these are 'mass produced'....due to size and the 'subject' matter. I am wondering whether these originally adorned a Krabi Krabong 'school' I have started to buy ethnic/tribal items to 'compliment' my weapon display, although I have no weapons to 'compliment' these figures I recently bought an Ashanti brass cast box with symbolic decoration, which, I would like to post. The relavence to weaponary would the symbolism associated with Ashanti knives and swords, would it be OK to do so. Regards David

3rd September 2007, 07:53 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thank Ian

7th September 2007, 02:15 PM	#11
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	I would agree with Puff in that there seems to be little market for most brass things in Burma so I would assume Thailand would be similar . I've seen a few Burmese brasses for sale in the UK but they seem to be few and far between ( i think eBay's recently had a Burmese general on a horse carrying a dha and a villager from either the 1800s or early 1900s ) In Burma at least ( and elsewhere ) the real collectible brass items are the "opium weights" and the occasional figures of musicians from the Bagan era . Most of these are already in private collections and so what you will find floating around are recent reproductions .

7th September 2007, 03:15 PM	#12
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	The most common brass objects are lord Buddha and related stuff. And then household objects. Figgure like this 's quite uncommon to me. It could be souvenier or such This is an example of tourist objects. Mostly, they are made in modern styles. This 's one of exceptional not-so-modern style. Brass object with some age rarely appear on the market because they could hardly make a good (antique) price.

8th September 2007, 12:46 PM	#13
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Puff I see what you mean ...the Muay Thai figures, mass produced and much smaller than the figures I posted are readily available. http://www.theartofthailand.com/muay...419f5c13d7ca5e However, in the West. pre WW2 there was little interest in Eastern Martial Arts and therefore no commercial value in trying to sell these figures to tourists. Because these are pre 1930's it strongly suggests that these were not manufactured as tourist 'trinkets'. I appreciate that they are basically a 'lump of metal', but , others that have no interest in edged weapons probably think it strange that we have appreciation of 'sharp lumps of metal' I cannot find any examples on the web or eBay, which remotely look like my figures