Two New North African Daggers

Lew · 15th July 2005, 11:32 PM

Hi Guys

Just did the buy now on these two daggers any idea what part of Africa they come from? The seller is pretty knowlegable but could the one marked European be North African?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6546098718

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6546097721

Lew

Rick · 16th July 2005, 12:21 AM

Hi Lew , the first one sure looks like it has Moroccan/Algerian style elements although the straight blade form is unfamiliar to me .

Second one ..

They both look like they're in mighty fine condition .

RobT · 16th July 2005, 05:07 AM

Aside from the double edged blade, the rest of the second knife (especially the sheath) looks like a faca da ponto. there recently was a thread about these knives. My friend did an internet search of faca da ponto and found out it is closely associated with the Brazilian martial art form Capoeira and is also closely associated with Candoble which I believe is a new world faith based on the African religion of Isa Ifa (the other famous offshoots being Voodu and Santaria). I agree with Rick that the first blade looks Moroccan. He of all people should know because, if I'm not mistaken, he owned a cafe in that area.
Sincerely,
RobT

Ian · 16th July 2005, 05:58 AM

Rob:

Do you mean Rick's Casablanca period -- I think he just liked hanging out with the chicks and propping up the bar

Agree on both IDs. I think the faca de ponta, a Brazilian version of the "Mediterranean" knife, is still being produced. The stacked handle, long needle-pointed blade, and typical leather sheath with belt clip are fairly distinctive.

The other one is Moroccan or thereabouts. The decoration seems typical of many 20th C. knives from that area.

Ian.

Edit: Here is that old thread for the faca de ponta: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=434

Lew · 16th July 2005, 02:09 PM

Hi Ian

Do you think the nimcha is 20th century? The patina on the wood and the use of a forged iron guard makes me think late 19 century?

Lew

fearn · 16th July 2005, 04:32 PM

Hi RobT and al,

I was thinking Mediterranean with the second knife, but I'm no expert on those blades.

Having played capoeira for several years, my reaction to linking the faca de ponto to capoeira was "HUNH?" Can you post the address where you found this info?

Until the middle of the 20th century (roughly), capoeira was a ghetto art. They certainly used knives (and hatchets, machetes, clubs, and whatever else they could get), but the classic capoeira weapon is a straight razor. A capoeirista would go to the barber to get an old razor that the barber no longer used, resharpen it, and that would become his weapon. They simply didn't have the money for fancy knives, and they used what they could get.

More recently, of course, capoeira has emphasized the sport and performance art aspects. Even now, I'm not aware of a specific type of "capoeira knife." Considering that capoeira emphasizes circular moves, I'd expect a capoeria knife to be designed for slashing rather than stabbing.

ariel · 19th July 2005, 04:35 AM

I think the Moroccan knife is a "Genoui" (or a similar spelling): a straight-bladed (unlike Koummya) N. African dagger whose name derives from Genoa.

15th July 2005, 11:32 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Two New North African Daggers Hi Guys Just did the buy now on these two daggers any idea what part of Africa they come from? The seller is pretty knowlegable but could the one marked European be North African? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6546098718 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6546097721 Lew

16th July 2005, 05:07 AM	#3
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	Faca Da Ponto Aside from the double edged blade, the rest of the second knife (especially the sheath) looks like a faca da ponto. there recently was a thread about these knives. My friend did an internet search of faca da ponto and found out it is closely associated with the Brazilian martial art form Capoeira and is also closely associated with Candoble which I believe is a new world faith based on the African religion of Isa Ifa (the other famous offshoots being Voodu and Santaria). I agree with Rick that the first blade looks Moroccan. He of all people should know because, if I'm not mistaken, he owned a cafe in that area. Sincerely, RobT

16th July 2005, 05:58 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Rob: Do you mean Rick's Casablanca period -- I think he just liked hanging out with the chicks and propping up the bar Agree on both IDs. I think the faca de ponta, a Brazilian version of the "Mediterranean" knife, is still being produced. The stacked handle, long needle-pointed blade, and typical leather sheath with belt clip are fairly distinctive. The other one is Moroccan or thereabouts. The decoration seems typical of many 20th C. knives from that area. Ian. Edit: Here is that old thread for the faca de ponta: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=434 Last edited by Ian; 16th July 2005 at 06:29 AM.

16th July 2005, 12:21 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Lew , the first one sure looks like it has Moroccan/Algerian style elements although the straight blade form is unfamiliar to me . Second one .. They both look like they're in mighty fine condition .

16th July 2005, 02:09 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Ian Do you think the nimcha is 20th century? The patina on the wood and the use of a forged iron guard makes me think late 19 century? Lew

16th July 2005, 04:32 PM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi RobT and al, I was thinking Mediterranean with the second knife, but I'm no expert on those blades. Having played capoeira for several years, my reaction to linking the faca de ponto to capoeira was "HUNH?" Can you post the address where you found this info? Until the middle of the 20th century (roughly), capoeira was a ghetto art. They certainly used knives (and hatchets, machetes, clubs, and whatever else they could get), but the classic capoeira weapon is a straight razor. A capoeirista would go to the barber to get an old razor that the barber no longer used, resharpen it, and that would become his weapon. They simply didn't have the money for fancy knives, and they used what they could get. More recently, of course, capoeira has emphasized the sport and performance art aspects. Even now, I'm not aware of a specific type of "capoeira knife." Considering that capoeira emphasizes circular moves, I'd expect a capoeria knife to be designed for slashing rather than stabbing.

19th July 2005, 04:35 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I think the Moroccan knife is a "Genoui" (or a similar spelling): a straight-bladed (unlike Koummya) N. African dagger whose name derives from Genoa.