What the heck is this one? ...

[Ian]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6557970437

Ian.

[Rick]

Ya got me !
Ancient fantasy sword ?

At least the opening bid wasn't as high as this one :

Edit :
Thank you for noticing that Mark and saving me a 10 day detention .

[Tim Simmons]

What an interesting piece, at first glance it looks like it is from somewhere on the Indian subcontinent. I am putting my chips on North Africa, Egypt, Sudan and there is a chance of a West African origin. Tim

[fearn]

I can't place it either. What it most reminds me of is a goofy modern piece I saw at a show. That "knife" (well, it had a sharpened edge on part of it) was made by a journeyman smith as a demonstration of his talents. It had curliques, spirals, and all sorts of other impracticalities, but it did demonstrate an ability to work with metal.

I wonder if the same thing is going on here. There are so many different features on this blade that it almost looks like the maker was demonstrating the breadth of his talents, rather than making a functional piece.

It could also be a fantasy piece. Where it's from, I don't know. I'd almost guess 19th/early 20th century European, simply because it's so apparently useless and so lacking in characteristic features.

Neat, though.

F

[Rick]

I get a kind of Euro feel from looking at it .
Satanic regalia ?

So many different design elements combined .
The work is good and crude at the same time ; what's with the portion of sawback on the blade .
The quillons look like European style work .
Hilt is bone ...

It looks like the Devil's tail .

[Tim Simmons]

I might well be very wrong but I do not think this is a fantasy thing, I am starting to think it is West African. Tim

[Tim Simmons]

I am going all over the place. The quillions are not that far away from some North African weapons, which could influnce West Africa Tim

[Mark]

If it weren't for the quillions & grip, I would have said it was Indian, since there are some pretty bizarre examples of blades on various types of swords from that area. An African has its attraction, but it must be an odd-ball hybrid one-off, because I can't think of anything from that part of the world that typically has that kind of handle.

Incidently, it looks to me that the grip has indeed been shortened, unless it was made for a cartoon character -- it only has three finger grooves and I doubt one could comfortably choke up a grip right against the cross-guard. Considering the diameter of the handle as a guide for proportions, it looks pretty short.

Can anyone see designs in the rounded bits? I can't tell if its just irregularities in the blade surface, or something stamped in there (other than the thin crescents, that is).

[Justin]

Im afraid I wont be of much help in placing its origin ,but I was wondering if anyone else thought it was missing a pommel? The grip just looks way too short to me.

[fearn]

It does look like it's missing something on the hilt, doesn't it? There's a bit of metal (or something) showing at the "pommel, " and that made me think that it was capped or peened somehow.

As for holding it, one would have to loop forefinger and thumb around the guard to have any traction at all. For some reason, I don't think this is a fighting weapon....

If it's West African, what is it doing with a bone hilt and an iron ferrule above the guard? An alternate theory: perhaps it's a tourist sword from...North Africa???

F

[Tim Simmons]

It looks too solid and well forged for tourist stuff and not enough fancy wire work or twiddly goldie looking bits on it to me but I suppose it is possible. I think North Africa is the most obvious guess but West Africa is still my favourite, one of those many royal or chief or office parade knives. The handle form just happens to appear atypical. I have just been thinking of some religous festivals in some parts of the world involve followers brandishing rather strange weapons and often self harming, I think these events happened more in the past. I wonder if anyone could come up with a picture of something similar. Tim

[Marc]

Funny thing is, they're not THAT unusual... I have two more with the same general overall features in one of the Museum Collections I'm cataloguing right now. Sorry, no pictures yet, though if there's interest I may put them up when I manage to have them removed from storage (may be one month or so before I can, so don't hold your breath...). Anyway, the basic characteristics are the same than this ebay one, tough one has a wood grip instead than a bone one and none have finger grooves. The bone grip also feature decoration with circular dots. The recurved one is exactly the same, down to the arrow-head finials, and the blade also features such a file-worked unsharpened "ricasso" (for lack of a better term).
Additionally, out of the documental tracking I'm doing from the pieces, at least one of them comes from a lot that entered the museum in 1946, and there's a good probability that its original acquisition reaches back to some point in the last quarter of the 19th c, though this is not confirmed yet.

I thought West Africa, also, when I first saw them, but my knowledge of African weapons is sadly lacking, I'm afraid. Somebody once said, here, that some West African tribes made their own interpretation of European swords (hangers and cutlasses) as prestige items. Maybe this can be a hint. The forgework is rather crude, in these exemplars...

Sorry for coming to this without pictures, but I thought that it was worth mentioning that this ebay piece wis not a one-of-a-kind occurrence...

[Bill]

very interesting sword. strikes me as from India, maybe some sort of temple sword. seller describes as 1800 & that the hilt has not been cut down, both seem plausible. would love to handle & try to experiment with it, likely the original user had very thin hands. could the small hilt be in order for quick movement; if used to chop, the force would come from the second hand above the guard.

[Tim Simmons]

Marc, Be sure to post those pictures. Tim

[Marc]

Tim, rest assured I will.

Ah, as an addendum... no distal taper, and both the exemplars I'm talking about have a pommel. Crude, but it's there.
Blade is extremely crude. To be sincere, they don't strike me as Indian, and even less as "temple swords". I still stick to the possible African connection...

[RSWORD]

The odd tip reminded me of some old whaling material that I recall seeing in a catalogue years ago. Perhaps something to spear blubber with or something like that. It seems to have a functional shape but a rather specific one.

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Marc, Be sure to post those pictures. Tim

Hmmm.... checking the forum for whaling knives...

No pictures uploaded. grumble grumble.

[Rick]

Google Image Search :

Flensing

[VANDOO]

WHAT THE HECK INDEED !!
ONE PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS.
THE LACK OF A PICTURE MAKES THIS POST LIKE A DISCUSSION BY MANY WHO HAVE EITHER SEEN AN ELEPHANT OR HAVE NOT. SO THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN AN ELEPHANT WILL GAIN LITTLE GOOD INFORMATION AS WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE CRITTER BEING DISCUSSED LOOKS LIKE.
PICTURES PEOPLE ! ONES THAT STAY WITH THE POST AS LONG AS THE POST LASTS. ITS NOT DIFFICULT TO ADD THEM NOW AND NO ONE IS MORE TECK CHALLENGED THAN I AND EVEN I CAN DO IT USING THE FORUMS INSTRUCTIONS, SO NO EXCUSES. THERE IS TOO MUCH DEAD WOOD IN THE FORUM ALREADY FROM PICTURES LOST OFTEN THE POST MAY AS WELL BE LOST TOO.
PERHAPS A GOOD NEW YEARS RESOLUTION TO ADD PICTURES PROPERLY TO YOUR POSTS IN THE FORUMS AND MAY YOU ALL HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR

[asomotif]

Thanks !

I searched on some dutch words, but although the dutch did quite some whaling in the past, this did not bring much pictures of knifes.

Flensing search works fine

[Rick]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Thanks !

I searched on some dutch words, but although the dutch did quite some whaling in the past, this did not bring much pictures of knifes.

Flensing search works fine

You're welcome, Willem .
Being Yankee/Norwegian I've got a bit of Whaler in my blood .