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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
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Aloha,
My father recently passed away, and in going through his "pack rat hovel" I re-discovered a couple of items. these used to be our "sword fighting" implements when we were all kids. As far as I can tell/remember these were discovered by my dad in his uncles house after he passed away. My great uncle was a member of the knights of Pythias in KEY WEST Fla. My ancestors were some of the original settlers of Key West, having moved from The Bahamas, and previously from S. Carolina during the Revolutionary war. Best I have been able to assertain is they are from the late 1800's, they dont seem to fall into the normal cerimonial swords I have seen form the knights of pythias. They have the following engraving on the swords, Luckhaus $ Gunther - Remscheid, and what appears to be a sheep with a cross topped standard enclosed in a circle. The long swords are numbered 500 and 509, the short sword has the same info but the circle around the sheep is broken and not solid and its number is 555. The long swords are 30" in lengths and have a non sharpened edge. the Short sword is 18 1/4" long. everyone that could have provided more info is gone now so I am trying to find out a little more about them form whatever resource I can find. So here I am. let me know if you can help . I put one image here and the others on a webpage as I did not want to put 12 images in this space. Thanks ![]() here is the link to the others. link to the swords in question |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 736
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I think they are machetes from Span-Am war in Cuba. They usually wear blades from German makers.
Very good pieces, I love this type of machetes. Thanks carlos |
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#3 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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I like these, I think you've got something good there ; the clip point bowie looks formidable .
Someone in your family was in the Span Am war perhaps ? Was Key West a disembarkation point for troops ? Would these have been used by Spanish forces Carlos ? Officer grade ? |
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#4 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 736
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Yes, I think is very possible that were used by spanish officers. I have this link with very good information of machetes in Cuba. best regards carlos http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/34-Ultramar.pdf |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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Thank you Carlos .
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#6 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
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Would these be considered machete even though they have a blunt "unsharpened" edge? OR am I thinking purely in the "cutting down the sugar cain and hacking the way through the jungle "machete" "
I am supposed to be getting a copy of the family history and I will scan it to see of any connection to the spanish american war. It is possible based on their geographic location during that time. Thanks for your information.. keep it coming.. |
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#7 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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When you talk of 'unsharpened edge' are you referring to the points or the entire blade length ? Could be that if you played with them as a kid someone might have rebated the edges for a modicum of safety . |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: between work and sleep
Posts: 731
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the two long ones look like cutachas... the swords of the machete-world. Here's an article: The Cutacha
by Carter Rila - "El Cutachero". |
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#9 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
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This is what makes me wonder about their being a machete. |
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#10 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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Let's call them Cutachas then .
![]() How they became dull is anyones guess . |
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#11 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
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BETTER CLOSEUP PICTURES OF THE POMMELS AND THE MARKING ON THE BLADES MIGHT HELP GET A MORE ACCURATE I.D.
IT IS INTERESTING THAT ALL THREE POMMELS APPEAR TO BE DIFFERENT. THEY MAY BE DRESS SWORDS WHICH WOULD NOT NEED TO BE SHARPENED. THEY ARE IN SWORD/MACHETE FORM BUT NOT REALLY INTENDED FOR WORK. IF THE OWNER WANTED HE COULD HAVE SHARPENED THEM BUT THEY LIKELY CAME WITH A DULL EDGE. ARE THE GRIPS BONE OR SOME OTHER MATERIAL AND IS THE POMMEL AND GAURDS WHITE METAL OR PLATED?. AN INTERESTING THREESOME I LOOK FOWARD TO LEARNING ANY OF THEIR HISTORY YOU FIND OUT. ![]() |
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#12 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
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is there anyway to determine the approx age via the serial numbers? 500/509/555 I have seen other listings for that same manufacture with numbers in the 2000 and 3000 range. I have post some more images, close ups of the pommels and handles. I forgot the closeups of the blade markings but I will post those tomorrow. There is about 6 close ups of each item in the new page. NEW SWORD IMAGES |
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#13 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
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ALL THREE WEAPONS APPEAR TO HAVE BONE GRIPS. ONE POMMEL IS OF SOME SORT OF MYTHACAL MONSTER WITH SCALES. THE SECOND ONE APPEARS TO BE A DOG HEAD AND THE LAST MOST LIKELY A LION. THE FITTINGS APPEAR TO BE CAST BRASS OR BRONZE, BRASS BEING MY BEST GUESS. THE ONLY THING THE NUMBERS ON THE BLADES MAKE ME THINK OF IS THAT THAT ARE FACTORY MADE BLADES NOT HAND FORGED. THATS ABOUT ALL I CAN ADD PERHAPS SOME MEMBER WILL HAVE BETTER INFO ON THEM ESPECIALLY THE MAKERS MARKS ON THE BLADES.
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#14 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
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![]() Thus the one that just finished on eBay but which remained unsold [item 230446603410, and pics are below] would then be a Cuban or Puerto Rican "MACHETE DEL TIPO “DE GUANABACOA” EN PRODUCCIÓN TARDÍA, HACIA 1880." per page 2 of the link above. Thanks again. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nipmuc USA
Posts: 496
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I am late to this thread and in going through some old picture files, then made some rounds of articles I had bookmarked over time, then realize in reading this thread that these sources have already been brought up. Hal's Therion site is a nice visit for lots of articles and one I have revisited often over the years.
The panther/lion form seem to reflect the saddle embellishments of northern Mexico. Somewhere I have pictures of this fancy one that surfaced on David Condon's pages and then finally sold by the ebayer pcay after several goes. I know I have the Condon pictures somewhere but the ebay pictures from pcay are always a treat and I found that folder first in my searches. I'm not sure how we got to Pythias forms Rick but I have lots of stuff on those as well. I do also have a picture archive of the German made eagle/chicken head machetes, as well as a few of the American made Collins birds. The Condon sword was one I had thought of buying at one point and then was a bit shocked to see it at another seller on ebay but so is the way of the world. Cheers GC |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
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Thanks for all of your help.
I will update the thread if I should uncover anything prevelant. Thanks again. ![]() |
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