Jewish Martial Arts

Michael Blalock · 17th June 2007, 01:13 AM

This is interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habbani_Jews

Bill M · 18th June 2007, 03:48 AM

Michael this is VERY interesting.

Best I can tell the Grandmaster's name translates as Joshua Author. Yehoshua Sofer. It could also be the Name of God Yod He Vau He (YHVH) with the letter Shin in the middle, or Yod He Shin Vau He (YHSVH)which is one of the Names of Jesus.

While I find the concept of Hebrew martial artists fascinating, I wonder if there are any ethnographic references?

Perhaps we could discuss this privately??

ALEX · 18th June 2007, 03:52 PM

Yes, very interesting.... Jewish bodyguards protecting an Arab Emir.
The bodyguards wearing large Yemeni/Jordanian jambiyas and swords. Are they for decoration or defense purposes? In my opinion these jambiyas are not combat-effective. Any other opinions?

Lew · 18th June 2007, 04:05 PM

Alex

The older 19th century jambiya were quite well made and had heavier blades and thicker forged central ribs when compared to the ones made today.

Lew

ariel · 18th June 2007, 04:11 PM

Just some clarifications:
Yehoshua means " God's Grace" or " God's Salvation". It is not that a letter Shin just wantonly found its way into the middle of the name: these are two words, just like Jonathan means God gave, and ( he-he) Ariel means God's Lion ( Assadullah

).
Sofer is not an "Author" but a Scribe. Sofer is a person who copies Torah scrolls by hand. The use of Sofer to designate an original author is a relatively later development.
The use of "foreighners" as personal bodyguards is a venerable tradition: Kings of Jordan used Circassians ( still do), Roman Emperors often used Germans and Byzantine Emperors used Slavs or Varangians. The trick here is that all these people would not be organic to the native population and thus (presumably) less likely to take part in palace coups. Some Big Bosses paid dearly for that illusion.
Another Jewish martial art is Krav Maga: a mix of the simplest and most brutal techniques to neutralize the opponent in 2 seconds or less. Uses elements of Heaven only knows how many established systems, from ju-jitsu to muay thai, to savate, to just nasty moves. Kind of Russian Sambo on LSD.

Bill M · 18th June 2007, 04:59 PM

But, Ariel, everyone knows that a "shin" is really a tooth.

I like your responses and am amazed by the depth of your knowledge.

But perhaps in the interest of maintaining the Ethnographics of this kind Forum we should discuss hermeneutics and gematria in private email.

Andrew · 18th June 2007, 05:19 PM

I've seen videos/documentaries about Rabbi Sofer before. What he and his students are demonstrating bears a striking resemblance to Chinese Kung-Fu and, in particular, to Wushu.

As Ariel notes, the modern Israeli Martial Art of Krav-Maga is well established and has many practitioners world wide.

Michael Blalock · 18th June 2007, 10:50 PM

Those look like the same type jambiyas that the personal guard of the Saudi family wear. I'm fairly certain that the machine guns would come out to protect the King in the event of danger.

ariel · 19th June 2007, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

Those look like the same type jambiyas that the personal guard of the Saudi family wear. I'm fairly certain that the machine guns would come out to protect the King in the event of danger.

Much good could it have done to him.....
King Abdullah I of Jordan ( see picture above) was shot in 1951 while visiting the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem.
Well, by that time the Sofers have already moved to Israel, otherwise they would have blocked the bullets with their Wu Shu magic

His grandson, Hussein, was saved on that day by a medal on his chest: it deflected the bullet. After that, he became a King and hired the Circassians. Shashkas will beat Kung Fu any time.

Andrew · 19th June 2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Shashkas will beat Kung Fu any time.

Yes, but can those Circassians fly through the treetops and fight while running across water?

ariel · 19th June 2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Yes, but can those Circassians fly through the treetops and fight while running across water?

Sure. Only without wires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1orbB79eZZ4

And, can Chou Yang Fat do this?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/310020/chechen_hand_gun/

Andrew · 19th June 2007, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Sure. Only without wires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1orbB79eZZ4

And, can Chou Yang Fat do this?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/310020/chechen_hand_gun/

(Great dancing, too.

)

17th June 2007, 01:13 AM	#1
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Jewish Martial Arts This is interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habbani_Jews Attached Images

18th June 2007, 04:05 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Alex The older 19th century jambiya were quite well made and had heavier blades and thicker forged central ribs when compared to the ones made today. Lew Attached Images

18th June 2007, 03:48 AM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Michael this is VERY interesting. Best I can tell the Grandmaster's name translates as Joshua Author. Yehoshua Sofer. It could also be the Name of God Yod He Vau He (YHVH) with the letter Shin in the middle, or Yod He Shin Vau He (YHSVH)which is one of the Names of Jesus. While I find the concept of Hebrew martial artists fascinating, I wonder if there are any ethnographic references? Perhaps we could discuss this privately??

18th June 2007, 03:52 PM	#3
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Yes, very interesting.... Jewish bodyguards protecting an Arab Emir. The bodyguards wearing large Yemeni/Jordanian jambiyas and swords. Are they for decoration or defense purposes? In my opinion these jambiyas are not combat-effective. Any other opinions?

18th June 2007, 04:11 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Just some clarifications: Yehoshua means " God's Grace" or " God's Salvation". It is not that a letter Shin just wantonly found its way into the middle of the name: these are two words, just like Jonathan means God gave, and ( he-he) Ariel means God's Lion ( Assadullah ). Sofer is not an "Author" but a Scribe. Sofer is a person who copies Torah scrolls by hand. The use of Sofer to designate an original author is a relatively later development. The use of "foreighners" as personal bodyguards is a venerable tradition: Kings of Jordan used Circassians ( still do), Roman Emperors often used Germans and Byzantine Emperors used Slavs or Varangians. The trick here is that all these people would not be organic to the native population and thus (presumably) less likely to take part in palace coups. Some Big Bosses paid dearly for that illusion. Another Jewish martial art is Krav Maga: a mix of the simplest and most brutal techniques to neutralize the opponent in 2 seconds or less. Uses elements of Heaven only knows how many established systems, from ju-jitsu to muay thai, to savate, to just nasty moves. Kind of Russian Sambo on LSD.

18th June 2007, 04:59 PM	#6
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	But, Ariel, everyone knows that a "shin" is really a tooth. I like your responses and am amazed by the depth of your knowledge. But perhaps in the interest of maintaining the Ethnographics of this kind Forum we should discuss hermeneutics and gematria in private email.

18th June 2007, 05:19 PM	#7
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I've seen videos/documentaries about Rabbi Sofer before. What he and his students are demonstrating bears a striking resemblance to Chinese Kung-Fu and, in particular, to Wushu. As Ariel notes, the modern Israeli Martial Art of Krav-Maga is well established and has many practitioners world wide.

18th June 2007, 10:50 PM	#8
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Those look like the same type jambiyas that the personal guard of the Saudi family wear. I'm fairly certain that the machine guns would come out to protect the King in the event of danger.